Mars Express mission, yes news from ESA!

[MeteorWayne]

Recent news from the Mars Express mission. Mars Express <br /><br /><font color="orange"> 21 May 2007<br />The High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) on board ESA’s Mars Express has captured breathtaking images of the Deuteronilus Mensae region on Mars.<br /> <br />The images were taken on 14 March 2005 during orbit number 1483 of the Mars Express spacecraft with a ground resolution of approximately 29 metres per pixel. </font><br /><br />Notice 2 years from observation to release <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The delay is due to the time needed to quality assure the data for release. I know from experience in this area (though not with mars express!) this can be a very onorous process.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

While I accept that, 2 years? To even release an image?<br /><br />I expect the Nature article to take that long, but to whet the appetite of the audience, it shouldn't take that long to show us (the space community) a bloody picture, IMO. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />But that's their method, NASA does it different.<br /><br />BTW, welcome back, Jon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi there.<br /><br />Interesting link there MeteorWayne.<br /><br />Yes I too am very disappointed by the slow release of news from ESA.<br /><br />Jon Clarke is right, it is difficult sometimes to descriminate what is worth posting & what is not &<br />I think that ESA does not have the PR resources that NASA does.<br /><br />However even allowing for that, ESA is pretty poor PR wise.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Some NASA data takes even longer to release. It all depends on the resource available for QAQC.<br /><br />It's good to be back! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[themanwithoutapast]

However even allowing for that, ESA is pretty poor PR wise. <br />--------------<br />ESA, other than NASA, does not depend on the general European public being aware of its achievement (only a handful are even aware that there is an organization called ESA), hence PR can be done on a minimal budget. In contrast, the public perception of NASA has an influence on Congress and therefore on what ressources it will get.

 

[JonClarke]

"Poor" is not a good word to use, as it implies that the PR coverage of NASA is the standard to which other organisations should aspire to. That is not the case. Eacxg organisation has to develop the PR coverage relevant to its operating environment. ESA, as you point out does not have to depend on public support as its budget cycle is very different to NASA's. It's budget is also a good deal smaller.<br /><br />Despite this, however, a good many people in Europe are aware of ESA and what it does. Certainly when I was last in Europe a good many people were generally aware of what ESA does and were quite interested in the results.<br /><br />I wish there would be less obsession about the PR aspects of ESA missions and more on the results. This image has a wealth of information in it with some very interesting implcations. less discuss those, rather than going over the sterile ground of the PR coverage or lack of it?<br /><br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

On that thought, here are some thoughts for consideration and discussion.<br /><br />Deuteronilus Mensae are one of a series of isolated plateaus that occur along the northern side of the southern highland-northern lowlands boundary that is one of the most important features of the global morphology of Mars. Cydonia Mensae are another example.<br /><br />As the artcile accoumpanying the images says, there is considerable evidence for glacial flow in these images. Now the Mensae are at relatively low latitude on Mars (39 degrees north) and there is not much sign of water in the MO neutron data. So either the evidence of flow has been preserved in the morphology long after the ice as sublimed away, or the ice is there at depths greater than the 1 m penetration of the neutron signal.<br /><br />There are quite a few areas on Mars where there is signs of large scale melting and then refreezing of the landscape. What this means in terms of planetary history is anybody's guess. However the lack of large craters means that this process is compartively recent - less than a billion years or so.<br /><br />As is often the case on Mars the scale is impressive. there is 2 km of relief and the dark area, presumably dark sand, is 110 km long.<br /><br />From an exploration point of view those cliffs should allow good access to a significant stratigraphy section of the hemispherical dichotomy bounday. the flat areas should be easy to traverse (unless they are heavily crevassed). The subsurface ice deposits will be interestin as possible sites for preservation of astrobiological material and will also be useful as a potential resource.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

While on the topic of Mars express images, here is another recent beauty. Go to http://www.dlr.de/mars/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-207/422_read-6855/ for the full resolution.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[portercc]

"I wish there would be less obsession about the PR aspects of ESA missions and more on the results."<br />TWO YEARS??? ARE YOU KIDDING???<br />Come on Jon, who pays the bills?<br />We are receiving crumbs of information while someone is typing up their research with two fingers.

 

[JonClarke]

It is an obsession for many people, post after poster of whinging instead of dicussion of the results which are what matter. Frankly it is getting tiresome.<br /><br />As for who is paying that is the members of ESA. If they are happy with the results then that is what matters. The rest of us have to be accept what we get. Of course, if you are live in a member state then do something about it. Complain to your representatives. <br /><br />As for the implication that the results are being releases in a tardy fashion, this is quite untrue. there has been an impressive collection of publications arising from Mars Express.<br /><br />So let's talking about what we have, not what we would like to get.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[portercc]

Respectifully, I have to disagree. I believe the scientific community has the responsibility to get as much information out on the streets as possible within a reasonable amount of time - and two years in order to publish is not a reasonable amount of time. <br />You've posted a beautiful ESA photo. It is now on my desktop and after seeing the frost in the crater, for the first time in my son's nineteen years, he started a conversation with me about the possibility of life somewhere else than on Earth - unbelieveable - it's always been my "nerd stuff".<br />I'm afraid the "they'll take what we give them" attitude does not work. We need to expand more minds in order they will be interested enough to pick up where we leave off....I'm obsessed.<br />Thanks for posting the pic!

 

[JonClarke]

Hey, it's on my desk top too! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I agree that there is an obligation to publish results as soon as possible. What is meant by soon depends on the context.<br /><br />In the case of ME the images are made available after 6 months, however to date not in a particularly friendly format for the average surfer. This is changing however. In this regard they have fulfilled their obligation.<br /><br />The other aspect is the PR side, this is the pretty pictures we all love. Certaonly these are coming out dreadully slow. But there is a budget issue here. The PR budget of ESA is minsicule, and it does not have the general pubic education and outreach charter that NASA has. So until these change we have to put up with it, unfortunately.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[ckikilwai]

"Of course, if you are live in a member state then do something about it. Complain to your representatives. "<br />lol, I even doubt they have ever heard of an European mission to mars <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br />But I'm searching for the politicians who are responsible for "spaceflight" in Belgium, if find them I will ask them what they can do and if they answer I will let you guys know <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[ckikilwai]

I found a guy called "de Vivier" who is the president of the workgroup spaceflight of Belgium, and was the president of conference of European parliaments in 2006 (in this conferences is decided which programs can get funds). <br /><br />In an e-mail I asked him what his vision is for ESA, what he thinks of the Russian offer to build a new lunar soyuz, and I said a lot of people in the space community complained about ESA's PR.<br /><br />I received a message back the same day:<br /><i>"Merci de votre message. Vous savez probablement que notre pays est un contributeur important à l'ESA: 180 millions d'euros par an (plus que l'Espagne) et la plus grande contribution par tête d'habitant parmi tous les pays de l'agence. Grâce à cela, nous sommes respectés comme "le plus grand des petits pays" ou "le plus petit des grands", ce qui nous donne accès à beaucoup de retombées industrielles, bien réparties entre Bruxelles, la Flandre et la Wallonie. Tous les industriels belges de l'espace demandent d'ailleurs que l'espace reste une compétence fédérale et ne soit pas régionalisée."</i><br /><br />In short, he says Belgium is large contributor to ESA, 180 million euro a year (with a population of 10 million people), and he wants to keep it that way. <br /><br /><i>"La base spatiale de l'ESA est Kourou, en Guyane française. On y construit en ce moment un pas de tir pour Soyouz. A terme, Soyouz va quitter Baikonour pour effectuer ses tirs à Kourou. La collaboration avec la Russie va donc se poursuivre. Il y a en ce moment un débat à l'ESA sur les missions habitées. J'y suis personnellement favorable. <br />L'ESA pourra demain avec ou sans la Russie envisager des vols habités vers la lune ou même Mars: pour cela l'Europe doit se garantir un accès autonome à l'espace."</i><br /><br />He says that there is a lot of discussion to do manned missions with a Russian spaceship now they are building a Soyuz launchpad in Kourou, and that he personally supports this idea.<br />B

 

[MeteorWayne]

Nice followup, (and translation <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> )Thanx!<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Well done! That is exactly the sort of action that, in the long run brings results. Keep it up.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[holmec]

Sweetness! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[portercc]

Very impressive ckikilwai. Hope to see more of your posts in the future.<br />

 

[CalliArcale]

Yes, thank you! I'm impressed by the quick reply he gave you. Sad to hear he probably won't get reelected, though. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> It figures. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[ckikilwai]

"Sad to hear he probably won't get reelected, though."<br />He will probably be replaced by another space enthousiast.<br />And our space budget has always been this high under several different governments, and I think that this won't change.

 

[portercc]

ckik- I see the Belgian election results are in.<br />"As always in Belgian politics, language will play a key role as the parties sit down to form a new coalition government. A linguistic balance is essential."<br />This doesn't sound good. <br />I hope your Belgian politicians aren't waffling...sorry.<br />Will the new PM be pro ESA?<br /><br />

 

[ckikilwai]

<font color="yellow">ckik- I see the Belgian election results are in.<br />"As always in Belgian politics, language will play a key role as the parties sit down to form a new coalition government. A linguistic balance is essential."<br />This doesn't sound good.<br />I hope your Belgian politicians aren't waffling...sorry."</font><br /><br />They aren't, it has to be that way, a goverment must always be formed by Dutch speaking and French speaking parties.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Will the new PM be pro ESA?</font><br />Our prime minister will probably be Yves Leterme, and he is pro European corporation, so probably ESA to.<br /><br />Mister Veviers his party has actually done well, and they are willing to talk to form a coalition with the party of Yves Leterme, <br />so there is good chance Veviers will stay in office.

 

[brellis]

Article<br /><br /><font color="orange">Franck Montmessin, from the Service d'Aéronomie du CNRS/IPSL (France) and lead author of the findings, explains how the deposits of water ice at the Martian's poles 'behave'. "We believe that the deposits of water-ice are juggled between Mars’ North and South Poles over a cycle that spans 51 000 years, corresponding to the time span in which the planet's precession is inverted." Precession is the phenomenon by which the rotation axis of a planet wobbles. </font><br /><br />How does the ice migrate? Does it rain on Mars? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi brellis.<br /><br />Through sublimation & re depostioning.<br /><br />I am not sure that rain in the normal sense applies here.<br /><br />It evaporates, then re-freezes.<br /><br />Fascinating article. 21,500 years ago, more frozen water, but no<br />frozen CO2!!!! <br /><br />Thank You.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>