Mars Water Debate Still Rages

[alexblackwell]

There's a new preprint available in <i>JGR-Planets in Press</i>:<br /><br /><i>Pondrelli, Monica; Baliva, Antonio; Di Lorenzo, Stefano; Marinangeli, Lucia; Pio Rossi, Angelo</i> — January 2005<br /><b>Complex evolution of paleolacustrine systems on Mars: an example from the Holden Crater</b><br />(2004JE002335)<br />PDF [6 MB]<br /><br />Note: I believe <i>JGR-Planets in Press</i> is available to non-subscribers.

 

[alexblackwell]

There's a new preprint available in <i>JGR-Planets in Press</i>:<br /><br /><i>Arkani-Hamed, Jafar</i> — January 2005<br /><b>Giant Impact Basins Trace the Ancient Equator of Mars</b><br />(2004JE002343)<br />PDF [1.62 MB]<br /><br />Note: I believe <i>JGR-Planets in Press</i> is available to non-subscribers.

 

[silylene old]

Alex: <b>Giant Impact Basins Trace the Ancient Equator of Mars</b> is an interesting paper!<br /><br />(and at the risk of encouraging further, <i>Polarwander</i> would like reading this work.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[alexblackwell]

Here are a couple of new books that I highly recommend:<br /><br /><i>Roving Mars : Spirit, Opportunity, and the Exploration of the Red Planet</i> by Steven Squyres<br /><br /><i>The Real Mars</i> -- by Michael Hanlon, Jim Garvin

 

[alexblackwell]

<i>Alex: <b>Giant Impact Basins Trace the Ancient Equator of Mars</b> is an interesting paper!</i><br /><br />Yes, it was. And note that Arkani-Hamed has published several interesting papers, though the list I linked to is a little dated.

 

[thechemist]

Mars Express 'divining rod' to deploy <br />12:43 07 February 2005<br />NewScientist.com news service<br />Maggie McKee<br /><br />"A "divining rod" to search for underground water on Mars will be deployed on Europe's Mars Express spacecraft early this spring, after a year of delays. The new deployment date for the radar antenna - to be announced within days - is likely to fall in April 2005."<br /><br />Better late than never <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[alexblackwell]

<i>Workshop on the Role of Volatiles and Atmospheres on Martian Craters<br />July 11–15, 2005<br />Laurel, Maryland<br /><br />First Announcement</i><br /><br /><br />Final Announcement<br />Program with Abstracts<br />Download Abstracts by Author

 

[starbaby57]

I could not agree more. I REALLY am anxious to learn the ages of the separate eruptions from each of the volcanoes on Mars, as well as the older southern highlands. Crater counts are helpful, but not nearly precise enough for my satisfaction. Unfortunately, it is my understanding that there really is no radioactive dating system that can be sufficiently miniaturized to travel on a lander. All the more reason we have to go ourselves. If I have been misinformed about the possibility of shipping this capability to Mars in an automated vehicle, then this instantly becomes my prefered choice for a near-future mission!

 

[starbaby57]

It might seem like stating the obvious, but I think the radar exploration of Mars by Mars Express and MRO will be the "next BIG thing". The radar mapping of the Earth by the shuttle several years ago revealed totally unknown and unexpected features. I can only imagine what we will see in these missions-completely aside from the exciting prospects for subsurface ice or even pools of water.

 

[star_sirius]

Good articles, Alex dude! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="0" color="#10bdee"><strong>A dazzling bluish luminosity from A distant south pacific.</strong></font><p><br /><img id="cb51e87e-8221-424c-8ff2-78c95122196c" src="http://sitelife.livescience.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/15/cb51e87e-8221-424c-8ff2-78c95122196c.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /></p> </div>

 

[alexblackwell]

From the August 2005 issue of <i>GSA Today</i>:<br /><br /><b>Red rock and red planet diagenesis: Comparisons of Earth and Mars concretions</b><br />Marjorie A. Chan, <i>et al</i>.<br /><i>GSA Today</i> <b>15</b>, 4–10, (2005)<br />3.5 Mb PDF reprint

 

[alexblackwell]

From the August 2005 issue of <i>Geology</i>:<br /><br /><b>Formation of Martian outflow channels by catastrophic dewatering of evaporite deposits</b><br />David R. Montgomery and Alan Gillespie<br /><i>Geology</i> <b>33</b>, 625-628, (2005).<br />Abstract

 

[alexblackwell]

From the July 22, 2005, issue of <i>Science</i>:<br /><br /><b>Martian Surface Paleotemperatures from Thermochronology of Meteorites</b><br />David L. Shuster and Benjamin P. Weiss<br /><i>Science</i> <b>309</b>, 594-600 (2005).<br />Abstract<br />Supporting Online Material

 

[alexblackwell]

<i>From the July 22, 2005, issue of <i>Science</i>:<br /><br /><b>Martian Surface Paleotemperatures from Thermochronology of Meteorites</b><br />David L. Shuster and Benjamin P. Weiss<br /><i>Science</i> <b>309</b>, 594-600 (2005).<br />Abstract<br />Supporting Online Material</i><br /><br /><br />Martian Meteorites Record Surface Temperatures on Mars<br />--- Gases trapped in Martian meteorites indicate that Mars has been a cold desert for a long, long time. <br /><i>Written by G. Jeffrey Taylor</i><br />Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology<br />posted July 29, 2005

 

[alexblackwell]

<i>Maybe the Aladdin Mission may be reviewed if these lunar investigations of Earth’s early atmosphere prove fruitful.</i><br /><br />Yes, borman, I thought this paper might pique your interest, especially considering our earlier discussion regarding sampling Phobos and Deimos for Noachian-aged materials from Mars' surface. As far as I know, Aladdin, which was proposed (and non-selected) in previous Discovery Program solicitations, is dead. There is the Gulliver mission concept, which proposed a Deimos sample return, that was proposed in the last solicitation. And I believe it will be submitted for the upcoming Discovery AO.

 

[thechemist]

"8 Years at Mars #6: Fossil Delta in Eberswalde Crater"<br /><br /><i>"Scientifically, perhaps the most important result of the Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) investigation during the MGS Extended Mission has been the discovery and documentation of a fossil delta located in a crater northeast of Holden Crater near 24.0°S, 33.7°W."</i><br />............<br /><i>"The Eberswalde delta provides the first clear, "smoking gun" evidence that some valleys on Mars experienced on going, persistent flow of a liquid with the physical properties of water over an extended period of time, as do rivers on Earth. In addition, because the delta today is lithified -- that is, hardened to form rock -- it provided the first unambiguous evidence that some martian sedimentary rocks were deposited in a liquid (presumably, water) environment. The presence of meandering channels, a cut-off meander, and crisscrossing channels at different elevations (one above the other), provided the clear geologic evidence for these interpretations."</i> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[karmakorps]

Hi, new to the forums, and over my head in terms of these technical discussions. I've been wondering as to the authenticity of the following jpeg I found at xenotechresearch.com (I browsed this topic and tried to find this pic, to no avail). A bit jaded these days on the tendency to jump to conclusions. Still, if this photos is actually from Mars, and the visible liquid substance is legit - I would like to know more about it:<br /><br />http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/jpl-images/web/opportunity/pancam/2004-12-19/1P155450047EFF38EVP2557L4M1.JPG<br /><br /><br />

 

[JonClarke]

It's important to realise that there were several wet episodes that left their imprint on these rocks. The first was the surface water that deposited the sediments. Later water movements formed the blueberries and other features of the rock. These may be quite separate events. The initial sediment deposition could quite easily be formed on the shores of a lake or sea. However the blueberries could be the result of regional gravity driven fluid migration or hydrothermal activity.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Why would this picture not be from Mars? It is on an archive of rover images after all.<br /><br />But the smooth material it isn't of water, you can see if you look from other images in the series it is on quite a steep slope, which is inconsistent with a pool of liquid. It also has surface texture. It is actually a deposit of windblown material next to the slab. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Oh, and a belated welcome to the forum BTW! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[karmakorps]

Thanks, Jon - good to be here. Thanks for the replies. Your response seems quite reasonable. As I suspected, there would probably be a less than spectacular explanation. Still, just knowing that water seems to have existed at some point (and potentially does exist underground, or at least as perma-frost) is very intriguing. I'll have to review this topic and learn more about it.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Karma