Max Lunar Lander Payloads

[willpittenger]

Thinking of how habitats and laboratories would be landed got me thinking about these questions.<br /><br />*How much could the various Apollo-era landers take to and from the lunar surface? (Please include crew.)<br />*How would the Apollo-era plans for extended stays on the lunar surface have sent their equipment to the moon? (That program died by the time Apollo 13 launched as I recall.)<br />*How much could the Orion lander take to and from the moon? (Or, at least what are the targets.)<br />*How would large pieces of equipment like habitats and laboratories be sent? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

For Apollo:<br />http://astronautix.com/craft/apollolm.htm<br /><br />Crew 144 kg.<br /><br />LSAM surface payload:<br />http://astronautix.com/craft/lsam.htm<br /><br />Total LSAM mass: 32,600 kg. <br />Descent stage: 19 tonnes of propellants<br /><br />I didn't see crew mass but I would think 800 lbs would be the limit...200 lb astronauts.<br />Mass of equipment, shelters, supplies used or left behind on lunar surface: 2700 kg <br /><br />For an unmanned lunar base or resupply mission without the CEV, the breakdown would be as follows: <br /><br />Total LSAM mass: 54,600 kg. <br />Descent stage: 33,600 kg; empty mass 7,400 kg <br />Mass of equipment, shelter, supplies used or left behind on lunar surface: 21,000 kg<br /><br />Didn't see mass figures for the Apollo LM at astronautix.com so I'm looking around. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Apollo 15-17 rover maximum mass was around 700 kg. 210 kg empty. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

This link has return mass info for individual Apollo missions.<br /><br />http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/A/Apollo_Project.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

From the link below:<br />http://www.braeunig.us/space/specs/lm.htm<br /><br />Total LM mass H series (J series).<br />15,200 kg (16,440 kg)<br />Propellant mass:<br />10,730 kg (11,250 kg)<br />Crew:<br />144 kg (144 kg)<br /><br />Leaving 4,326 kg (5,046 kg) for total payload. I wasn't able to find the official payload figures anywhere. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

http://astronautix.com/craft/orioncm.htm<br /><br />100 kg max payload. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Some links to planned post Apollo missions.<br /><br />http://astronautix.com/craft/apoelter.htm<br />A shelter affair with a payload of 2,300 kg.<br /><br />http://astronautix.com/craft/apololpm.htm<br />Something called the lunar payload module that was designed with a 3620 kg payload in mind.<br /><br />http://astronautix.com/craft/apotruck.htm<br />5,000 kg payload capability planned for this pup.<br /><br />http://astronautix.com/craft/index.htm<br />Go to the letter "A" in case I missed any. Hope I was able to help. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

"How much could the various Apollo-era landers take to and from the lunar surface"<br /><br />The Grumman built Lunar Module (older name Lunar Excursion Module) had an ascent stage massing 4,500 kg. So that was the effective 'payload'. So if a cargo landing version of the LM was ever built it probably would have had the capacity to land 4.5 tonnes of cargo on the lunar surface.<br /><br />"How much could the Orion lander take to and from the moon? (Or, at least what are the targets.) <br />*How would large pieces of equipment like habitats and laboratories be sent? "<br /><br />The Lunar Surface Access Module is claimed to provide the capacity to land more than 20 tonnes of cargo on the lunar surface.<br /><br />

 

[willpittenger]

You didn't answer how much either lander to return to orbit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[themanwithoutapast]

From various sources:<br /><br />*How much could the various Apollo-era landers take to and from the lunar surface? (Please include crew.) <br /><br />As mentioned above: 4,5t of "payload" to surface (not including the spare descent stage)<br /><br />*How would the Apollo-era plans for extended stays on the lunar surface have sent their equipment to the moon? (That program died by the time Apollo 13 launched as I recall.) <br /><br />There was a plan for a separate unmanned moon-base lander.<br /><br />*How much could the Orion lander take to and from the moon? (Or, at least what are the targets.) <br /><br />For the unmanned cargo LSAM version (launched by an Ares V) 18t<br />For the manned LSAM version, the ascent module (payload) will weight between 9-10t (according to ESAS)<br /><br />*How would large pieces of equipment like habitats and laboratories be sent?<br /><br />As mentioned above, with an unmanned cargo LSAMs launched by Ares V.<br /><br />By other space agencies - with an Ariane 5 ECA a lander might (assuming a lander stage with an ISP of 310) get about 2.5t to lunar surface.<br /><br />Launched by a Proton the Lunakod-rovers had a mass of 1t each - but there was some margin for that, so when using a Proton as a launch vehicle (assuming an ISP 310 lunar lander) might be able to land about 1.5t.<br />

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>*How much could the various Apollo-era landers take to and from the lunar surface? (Please include crew.)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>As mentioned above: 4,5t of "payload" to surface (not including the spare descent stage)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />You did not include manned version or the return to orbit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[themanwithoutapast]

"Thinking of how habitats and laboratories would be landed got me thinking about these questions. "<br /><br />1. Apollo 4.5t to surface is for the "manned version". <br /><br />2. Return to orbit is irrelevant for establishing a moon base. More interesting would be the figures of payload to circular lunar orbit.

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Apollo 4.5t to surface is for the "manned version".<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Then you can't include the ascent module itself in your figures. By "manned," I did not mean "man-rated."<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Return to orbit is irrelevant for establishing a moon base.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Sure it is. Your crew wants to return home, don't they? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>