Metrics finally defeats Imperial measurements

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kane007

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At last NASA has finally accepted the superiority of the metric measurement system over the old English system.<br /><br />Hmmm that now only leaves 2 official holdouts - Liberia and Burma.<br /><br />Now, the bad news. Has anyone actually told them that the metric system itself is outdated and has been updated to Système international d'unités (SI). Much the same but with some changes eg temperature is in Kelvin, mole instead of letre/gallon, etc. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Kidding aside here is the Metric Moon article.<br /><br />
 
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vogon13

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How many ferkins of LOX in the external tank?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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kane007

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I'd say about 25.42 litres per mole. So how full is your external tank? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />
 
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billslugg

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In 1990 I helped build a papermachine in Oxnard, CA. I kept getting field orders for stuff that was 4" off of where it should be. We traced it to a 4th decimal place error in a metric to English conversion routine. (The machine was made in Sweden) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>
 
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spacester

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NASA sez ET volume is 18563 cu.ft.<br /><br />That's<br />17633 US Firkins (9 US gallons per US Firkin, 7 US Firkins per US Hogshead)<br /><br />or<br /><br />14682 Imperial Firkins (9 Imperial gallons per Imperial Firkin, 6 Imperial Firkins per Imperial Hogshead)<br /><br />Of course, a Firkin is half of a Kilderkin and there are 4.5 Pins in a Firkin in either system, and an Imperial Gallon is 1.201 US Gallon.<br /><br />Now, as far as Vogon Ferkins go . . . you guys think you're such good bureaucrats, but we're still waiting for that information, so you'll have to finish the conversion yourself. <br /><br />(edit: I fixed a firkin error) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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trailrider

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"Now, the bad news. Has anyone actually told them that the metric system itself is outdated and has been updated to Système international d'unités (SI). Much the same but with some changes eg temperature is in Kelvin, mole instead of letre/gallon, etc."<br /><br />The main concern I have is in the second and third tier U.S. hardware manufacturers converting their machinery to metric. The metric system was actually adopted by Congress back in the 1970's or '80's (can't recall when). But it never happened because of the costs of re-tooling American industry.<br /><br />Going metric "makes sense" from the standpoint of co-operating with other nations. The problem is whether it is feasible in the U.S. Perhaps the process of conversion has already started, but it will take quite awhile to complete it. And then there is the problem of back-compatability with existing equipment, tooling, etc.<br /><br />Ad Luna! Ad Ares! Ad Astra!<br /><br />
 
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john_316

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Yeah didn't we lose a planetary probe due to SI-Metric-Imperial conversion?<br /><br />Sound like people need to get with the Imperial system? <br /><br />What the hell is wrong with it anyways? Oh thats right its a french thing we all have to use. Wait a moment! Whos the Imperial Power here now? <br /><br />Oh poor baby's can't use 10 factors with it like in metric.... Hey look its not 77mm its 7.7 cm...... Whippie I am crying here!!!<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br />Figure I'd rant......... LOL<br /><br /><br />
 
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erioladastra

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"The main concern I have is in the second and third tier U.S. hardware manufacturers converting their machinery to metric. "<br /><br />That is actually the key. ISS, for example, is already metric. But like other NASA dictates (e.g., english being the oficial language, the crew day being 9-5 houston time) they aren't often backed up. When folks complain that it will cost money to convert to metric NASA backs down. Then realizes later we need it and spends more to convert ISS displays and data to metric. Ugh.<br />
 
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dreada5

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One of things that I think is really annoying about Imperial is the use of inadquate units, eg. feet or cubic feet when measuring distance or volume (respectively) in space/space hardware. Feet are just too small/inadequate. <br /><br />Metre or Meter depending on how you spell just seems more useful (bout the length of a man's leg)<br /><br />Ol' Frenchy's Metric system is just cool. Imperial's not anymore! <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> [/rant off]
 
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halman

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kane007,<br /><br />This is wonderful news, which should be on the front page of every newspaper, and the lead story of every newscast! The continued use of the hodgepodge of measurements ofter referred to in the U. S. as 'SAE' is clear evidence of the backwardness of this country. In spite of leading the world in many technologies, the United States still cannot adapt to metric for its daily life, because too many people cannot figure out how to convert gallons to liters, kilometers to miles, or grams to ounces. Anything which discomforts the American consumer, and which might prevent them from buying something, must be avoided at all costs.<br /><br />When gasoline first rose above 1 dollar a gallon, it caught many retailers by surprise. Their pumps were not capable of registering a price greater than 99.9 cents per gallon. Some chose to sell their gas by the liter, so that they could display a price a fraction of what others were displaying. Others had no choice, as they could not sell by the half gallon. One woman pulled into a gas station and asked the attendant (there were people at gas stations to help you in those days,) why their gas was so cheap. The attendant replied, "Because we are selling it by the liter, instead of by the gallon." <br /><br />"Damn," the woman replied, "my car will only take gallons." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>
 
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billslugg

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I like the simplicity of the metric system. A one volt potential, applied across a one ohm resistance, for one second, transfers one coloumb of charge, at a power dissipation of one watt, at one amp of current, to convey one joule of energy. (Does it raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree celsius? I don't know - I just busted my credit limit)<br /><br />I believe the English system would involve King's Units, Imperial gallons, and Furlongs per Fortnight. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>
 
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cuddlyrocket

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^ No, the specific heat of water is 4,186 Joules per kg per degree Celsius. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />
 
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vogon13

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I just knew hogsheads would be involved somewhere in all of this . . . . .<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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rocketman5000

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many international US. based companies are either converting or already us metric. I work for Ingersoll Rand. Divisions of the company which sell solely in the US use 'SAE' units. Metric is used at my division, but we have design centers in US, German, China and India. 2nd and 3rd tier suppliers machine to our metric dimensions. Weither they machine a 6 mm hole or a .236 in hole is inconsequential. to a CNC machine it is still just a number.
 
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josh_simonson

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Eh, this is more or less meaningless. I design transistors in microns that get placed on a die thats measured in mils, connected by a bondwire that's also measured in mils, to a package that's measured in millimeters that gets soldered onto a board who's copper thickness is measured in ounces. <br /><br />NASA's suppliers will keep feeding them the same stuff they always did. NASA is just slapping a 'metric' label on the finished product and pretending that's something special. It's still quite possible to screw up your units within the 'safety' of the metric system. Was that km/s or m/s? Radians/s or degree/s? Floating point or integer? Unsigned or two's compliment? *Boom!* Oh no!
 
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spacester

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Hold on just a minute there, pal. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Don't you be trash talking SAE. SAE helped make this country great, and Americans enjoy unsurpassed mechanical technology in terms of disastrous failure modes because of SAE and similar orgs (ASME, NIST, ASHRAE, many many others).If not for the Germans (OK and the French), pretty much the entire world would be copying American institutions on their technology standards. The fact of obsolete British units is a testament to the economic might of the British Empire in full flower, and England being decades earlier than the rest of the world in the industrial revolution.<br /><br />You've got it backwards - America leads the world and our system is one reason why. It isn't a matter of people figuring out how to convert units. It's remedial engineering - units errors by real engineers in critical situations are like doctors amputating the wrong limb or a mechanic putting water in the crankcase.<br /><br />One needs to consider international economics here, realize that the separate systems evolved in response to a long history of economic development.<br /><br />That's the first of three main points I have on this subject. Once upon a time I was able to explain this well (in a lost thread), so I hope to do that again. In fact, let me check my archives . . . darn it, no, oh well, here we go. My profession is Mechanical Engineering, specializing in machine design and design methods.<br /><br />So I'm designing a new piece of space equipment and the directive comes down from on high that this is to be a metric project. During that meeting, us engineers nod dutifully, but back at our desks we exchange knowing glances. What they don't know what hurt them, right? You see, there's metric, and then there's metric. How deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go?<br /><br />If I'm going to bolt some flanges together, I need to choose a bolt size and number of bolts. Based on bolt size, fits and tolerances, the hole sizes <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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mrmorris

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<font color="yellow">"Eh, this is more or less meaningless. "</font><br /><br />One of the things mentioned in an article talking about this was tool compatibility. Even if everything else were discounted -- this would be worthwhile. Only needing *one* set of lunar sockets, wrenches, etc. would be great. Yes, it's *possible* to use a 13mm socket on a 1/2" bolt head... but there's really more tolerance than there should be. And if Joe Astronaut strips the bolthead... it's a llllooonnnggg trip to Home Depot.
 
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billslugg

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I have a copy of a page from an Army field manual that states that landmines are laid out using yards as the measurement. The maps that show where the mines are, are made using meters. Could any problems arise from this? Nooooooo <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>
 
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josh_simonson

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>One of the things mentioned in an article talking about this was tool compatibility. Even if everything else were discounted -- this would be worthwhile. Only needing *one* set of lunar sockets, wrenches, etc. would be great. Yes, it's *possible* to use a 13mm socket on a 1/2" bolt head... but there's really more tolerance than there should be. And if Joe Astronaut strips the bolthead... it's a llllooonnnggg trip to Home Depot.<br /><br />That's not true though. If NASA asks for a product, say an optical gyroscope, in typical (low volume) NASA quantities, then demands that all the english unit fasteners and parts in it be converted to metric, the reply will be to shove it. Like I said, there will just be a big 'metric' sticker, covering up all the english unit bits inside.
 
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kosmonavtkaa

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<i>Air & Space</i> article of pertinent interest from 2001 stored on my site: Metric Mayhem <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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john_316

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Its ok... I can deal with it... for now!!!<br /><br />But frenchy better be looking over his back cuz hes got a cowboy boot kickn coming his way real soon. Well it actually began a few years ago but shhhhhhhh!!!!<br /><br />I know we adopted their their pathetic measurement and they have to deal with the Boeing over Airbus resurgence. <br /><br />Eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!! Ouch!!!!!<br /><br />Of course thats what they get when they corner the market on satellite launches.......... <br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><br />***This was meant to be a humorous posting kinda like Talladega Nights***<br /><br />
 
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mako71

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />konangrit: ...you’d change the clock and calendar so that you’d have 100 seconds to the minute, 100 minutes to the hour, 10 hours a day, five weeks per month and 10 months a year. <br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Think about people in the future, which have lived their whole life in space. What kind of calendar they have? I think that they will give up years and days, because those are derived from Earth's orbital parameters and axial rotation. So, they probably measure time in pure seconds.<br /><br /><pre><br /> 1 s = like today <br />100 s = 1 hectosec ~ 1.5 min <br /> 1 ks = 1 kilosecond ~ 15 min <br /> 10 ks ~ 3 hours <br />100 ks ~ 30 hours ~ 1 day <br /> 1 Ms = 1000 ks ~ 11 days ~ 1 week <br /> 10 Ms ~ 3.7 months <br />100 Ms ~ 37 months ~ 3 years <br /> 1 Gs ~ 30 years <br /> 3 Gs ~ lifetime <br /></pre><br /><br />---<br /><br />How about? Would make time counting much more easier than today... :) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>________________ </p><p>reaaliaika.net </p> </div>
 
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dreada5

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p> 1 s = like today <br />100 s = 1 hectosec ~ 1.5 min <br /> 1 ks = 1 kilosecond ~ 15 min <br /> 10 ks ~ 3 hours <br />100 ks ~ 30 hours ~ 1 day <br /> 1 Ms = 1000 ks ~ 11 days ~ 1 week <br /> 10 Ms ~ 3.7 months <br />100 Ms ~ 37 months ~ 3 years <br /> 1 Gs ~ 30 years <br /> 3 Gs ~ lifetime <br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Interesting! ... like star trek stardates <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />
 
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