MGS problems

[willpittenger]

It seems that MGS is in trouble. The following is from Orbiter may be last chance to rescue Mars probe at CNN.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><b>CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida</b> (Reuters) -- NASA is running out of options for fixing a failed Mars probe that has been snapping detailed pictures of the red planet for a decade, officials said Monday.<br /><br />Mars Global Surveyor is the oldest of five NASA robotic probes checking the planet for signs that Mars once had water, which many scientists believe to be the key to learning if life ever took root there.<br /><br />Global Surveyor, which has found evidence of ancient channels and gullies that likely were carved by flowing water, stopped working November 2 after it developed a motor problem while trying to move one of its power-generating solar panels.<br /><br />After two days of silence, ground control teams received a signal that the spacecraft had put itself into an emergency standby mode. There was no information about what had gone wrong.<br /><br />Since then, the mission operations team at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, has run through nearly all its backup plans to try to contact the probe.<br /><br />This week, engineers are preparing for what may be their last chance to salvage the spacecraft.<br /><br />NASA plans to use the newly arrived Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, or MRO, to take a picture of Global Surveyor to see how the failed craft is oriented relative to the sun for power and to Earth for communications.<br /><br />The picture will be taken Friday when the satellites are about 93 miles apart. MRO's high-powered camera should be able to image details of Global Surveyor as small as about 10 centimeters, said Tom Thorpe, the spacecraft project manager.<br /><br />"We have a good chance of recovering it still," Thorpe said in an interview.<br /><br />Flight controllers also plan to try to get Global</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[edkyle98]

I hope that Lockheed Martin/NASA engineers working on the Orion service module take this incident to heart. Orion, which will also be solar powered, must be able to solid-gold recover every single time from an array-pointing problem since it will be left unmanned in lunar orbit for weeks at a time while crews explore the surface. It would be very bad news indeed if an Orion spacecraft tumbled off into powerless oblivion.<br /><br /> - Ed Kyle

 

[willpittenger]

There is good news there. MGS did not fail until it was over ten years old. No Orion service modules will fly at that age. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[edkyle98]

The press release hints at a possible wake for MGS momorrow.<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/nov/HQ_M06179_MGS_nte.html<br /><br />MEDIA ADVISORY: M06-179<br /><br />NASA Provides Mars Global Surveyor Update<br /><br />NASA will hold a media teleconference at 1 p.m. EST, Tuesday, Nov. 21, to discuss the status and science accomplishments of the Mars Global Surveyor. The 10-year old spacecraft is the oldest of five NASA spacecraft currently active at the red planet.<br /><br /> - Ed Kyle

 

[MeteorWayne]

The news is not good<br /><br /> link <br /><br />"WASHINGTON - NASA's best effort to find a missing Mars space probe failed Monday night, as scientists at the space agency began to lose hope for the 10-year-old planet-mapping workhorse.<br /><br />After more than two weeks of silence from the Mars Global Surveyor, NASA will make other tries, but scientists began to sound resigned Tuesday.<br /><br />"We may have lost a dear old friend and teacher," Michael Meyer, the lead scientist for NASA's Mars Exploration Program said in a news conference.<br /><br />The $154 million surveyor, which was expected to operate for just two years, is the oldest of five different active space probes on or circling the red planet.<br /><br />Among its accomplishments are its more than 240,000 pictures of the red planet, offering the best big-picture view of the red planet.<br /><br />"Every good thing comes to an end at some point," said Arizona State University scientist Phil Christensen. "It certainly in my mind greatly exceeded our wildest expectations of what to hope for. It revolutionized what we were thinking about Mars."<br /><br />On Monday night, NASA had hoped to catch a glimpse of the surveyor from the camera on the new Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. But the orbiter failed to spot it.<br /><br />Now NASA will try an even less likely search effort. Engineers will send a signal to the silent spacecraft, asking it to turn on a beacon on one of the two Mars rovers below. If the rover beacon turns on, NASA could figure out where the lost Mars Surveyor is, said project manager Tom Thorpe."<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bpfeifer]

NASA's Mars Global Surveyor May Be at Mission's End<br />http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mgs/mgs-20061121.html<br /><br />I don't know how I missed the press conference, but here's the info from NASA. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

<font color="yellow">There is good news there. MGS did not fail until it was over ten years old. No Orion service modules will fly at that age.</font><br /><br />Not so fast. One of the likely causes for electronic failure in the MGS would be a short from tin whisker growth. Orion has to deal with both 15 years of further miniturization and hippies demanding the use of lead free solder.

 

[halman]

MeteorWayne,<br /><br />While reading the press conference transcript regarding the accomplishments of the Mars Global Surveyor, the passage about gullies being detected where there are no impact craters struck me. <br /><br />I began to wonder what would happen if a young comet, recently dropped from the Kuiper Belt, were to enter the atmosphere of Mars. That atmosphere is less dense than that of Earth, so the initial heating would be less explosive, resulting in the ice remaining in a smaller area. But a cubic mile of water ice would still be distributed over a small area of the Martian surface, probably melting before it reached the surface. The liquid water would erode the surface, and then evaporate, probably to recondense at the poles. This seems to me to be about the only way to account for water erosion evidence with no open bodies of surface water.<br /><br />What do you think of my theory? Don't worry about sparing my feelings, because I am certainly no student of planetary evolution. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Orion has to deal with both 15 years of further miniturization and hippies demanding the use of lead free solder.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />The lead-free initiative isn't just for solder. There are lots of parts with lead in them even before they get soldered onto a circuitboard. Fortunately, the space industry is not entirely unaware of the tin whisker problem; there are lead-free alternative that are also tin-free, or which have non-lead coatings to prevent the formation of tin whiskers. Most of these alternatives are being sold by the very same suppliers who used to sell the lead versions of the same parts. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

I remember seeing something that said that the solar wind was to blame for the loss of much of the Martian atmosphere -- including any airborne water (clouds or vapor). Once the planet was no longer protected by a magnectic sphere, the solar wind won. This appears to be the future of Venus. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Well, I'm a student, but no expert <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Cometary impacts are at much higher speeds (in general) than asteroidal ones, so I suspect all the water would be pretty thoroughly vaporized and distributed. In any case, with the much thinner atmosphere, I would again suspect, that such an object would impact the surface and therefore leave a crater.<br />As far as I could se, there was none in that image, and I looked pretty hard <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Now this is going back a year or so but I recall that two explanations were offered for fresh gullies; either subsurface water melting, or CO2 sublimating and forming a gas/dust mixture which flowed downhill causing the erosion.<br />I don't know that that question was ever resolved.<br />During my pre-Thanksgiving cleaning I ran across a few Science and Natures with Mars results, I'll see if Mr Squyers and friends came to a firmer conclusion.<br /><br />Those were a great pair of images (2002 and 2005), though, weren't they? Showed the creation of the gullies at the same location in between. Did you see them on NASA TV? Certainly one of the great triumphs of it lasting so long.<br /><br />If MGS has expired, thank you and farewell good friend.<br /><br />That does raise another question. I wonder how long the orbit is stable in the Martian orbit?<br />Have to search around for an answer for that (or just ask it here and see if someone already knows the answer <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> )<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>