Mirror Matter

Page 2 - Seeking answers about space? Join the Space community: the premier source of space exploration, innovation, and astronomy news, chronicling (and celebrating) humanity's ongoing expansion across the final frontier.
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
Re: Matter / Antimatter

Danggali":1peuj3sw said:
A 'mirror image' object is constructed in the exact shape of an object's mirror image ?

I am not sure I understand ...
It's clear you don't understand. Please describe a hydrogen atom as you understand it, so then I can project that image in a mirror. Then I will know what you are trying to say.

Perhaps you can quote what Feynman said about mirror atoms. Maybe his description is clearer.
 
D

Danggali

Guest
Re: Matter / Antimatter

Jerromy":2ytgsfor said:
The only difference I could imagine as to why matter and mirror image matter would decay at different rates would be the atomic rotation spinning with the rotation of the universe or against it.
Basically the Lee-Yang experiment showed that only the left-handed attributes of particles and the right-handed attributes of anti-particles participate in Weak interactions. it was shown that parity is conserved by the EM force, Gravity, and the Strong Nuclear force ... but not the Weak Nuclear force.

It is the above that breaks mirror-symmetry ... actually reflexion-symmetry ....

I am probably broadening the scope here way beyond the the thread theme. We live in a right handed Universe ..... all things evolve to be right handed in order to adapt to they're right handed environment.

There is no compelling reason that the Universe has to be right handed .... But somewhere it had to make a choice between right or left .... when symmetry was first broken asymmetric paths were/became established probabilities/possibilites ...... Only one path could be chosen.

The fact that the Universe displays overwhelming attributes connected to 'right-hand' rather than 'left-hand' is also compelling evidence that we (both animate and inanimate) are all 'descended from a single ancestral choice.

It is possible to make left handed objects, and even if we could make left handed life ... it would not live long as it would not be able to absorb/digest right handed proteins and sugars, which is all that evolution now produces, an so it would starve and die. (Because the proteins that now exist are mirror images of the proteins that the left handed frog needs ... and they will not fit and so cannot be digested) ....

Saccharine is a left handed sugar made artificially and that is why weight-watchers love it ... it tastes sweet but cannot be digested because it is the mirror image of the right handed sugar that we find naturally. Plants are capable of making left and right ... but left is a waste of energy, it is selected against and therefore has disappeared from nature.

Wow ... hope i'm not goin on too much ... lol

This has all been gone through by Feynman and his left-handed-frog and his warning that before you shake hands with an alien, if he offers his left hand ... be very wary .... lol.

You could google Feynman's left handed frog and it would probably be more informative than my posts which are not as erudite as I would wish them.

cool bananas ... greg
 
D

Danggali

Guest
Re: Matter / Antimatter

MeteorWayne":ggnpz63t said:
Danggali":ggnpz63t said:
A 'mirror image' object is constructed in the exact shape of an object's mirror image ?

I am not sure I understand ...
It's clear you don't understand. Please describe a hydrogen atom as you understand it, so then I can project that image in a mirror. Then I will know what you are trying to say.

Perhaps you can quote what Feynman said about mirror atoms. Maybe his description is clearer.
Feynman never said anything about mirror atoms that I know of ? You must be misunderstanding what I am saying, my fault most probably ....

What does a hydrogen atom have to do with mirror image ..... Your left hand is a mirror image of your right hand ... you cannot shake hands with yourself ... its impossible ?? When you raise your left hand the man in the mirror raises his right hand ... He is your mirror image.

Both hands are made of the same elements, or if you prefer protons and electrons.

This is not really the point of my post and I don't know why you are so hung up on it ??

The Lee Yang experiment showed that when you raise your left hand, the man in the mirror also raises his left ..... this proof of weak beta decay is what all the nobel prizes were handed out for ..... is this a bit clearer

I have Feynman's Physics lectures in book form and on my Ipod .... you can download these lectures from Itunes or buy the books from Amazon ... otherwise I will have to transcribe ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11773791

cool bananas ... greg
 
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
Re: Matter / Antimatter

A major part of the problem is that you put this in the wrong topic. Mirror Matter is NOT antimatter, so this belongs in it's own topic. That has led to a lot of misunderstanding.

I will split the thread and start a new topic called "Mirror Matter" for this discussion.

MW
 
D

Danggali

Guest
Re: Matter / Antimatter

Ok ... yes I see ..... but mirror matter and Anti-matter are both relevant to weak beta decay ... I don't know that they can be split ??

your the boss ... greg
 
C

csmyth3025

Guest
Re: Matter / Antimatter

Danggali":2heqo8ph said:
Ok ... yes I see ..... but mirror matter and Anti-matter are both relevant to weak beta decay ... I don't know that they can be split ??

your the boss ... greg
Although matter/mirror-matter and anti-matter/anti-mirror-matter may both be relevant to weak beta decay, I'm not sure that the notion that matter and anti-mirror-matter will not annihilate has been established.

Also, although sugar and saccharin are mirror image molecules and saccharin cannot be digestd biologically due to its "left-hand" twist, I'm not sure there is any evidence that this property of molecular biology extends to physical processes or to atoms.

Like MW, I'm still having a hard time picturing what a mirror image hydrogen atom would look like or how it would be different from a regular hydrogen atom.

Chris
 
D

Danggali

Guest
Re: Matter / Antimatter

csmyth3025":25uzlyqn said:
Although matter/mirror-matter and anti-matter/anti-mirror-matter may both be relevant to weak beta decay, I'm not sure that the notion that matter and anti-mirror-matter will not annihilate has been established.
I think the logic goes like this:

Feynman said 'Basically the Lee-Yang experiment showed that only the left-handed attributes of particles and the right-handed attributes of anti-particles participate in Weak interactions.'

My interpretation of the above is this: The interaction or annihilation that occurs between an electron (matter) and a positron (anti-matter) will not occur between Matter and Anti-Mirror-Matter because they are both, in a way, 'left handed', they are asymmetrical ? Left does not interact with left ? The charges and attributes are all reversed.

So they will not annihilate ?

Nor will an interaction occur such as that between Matter and Mirror-Matter because, where the Lee-Yang experiment has shown that thru weak-beta decay the clock and the mirror-clock keep different times ... a clock and a mirror-anti-matter-clock will keep the same time ( I tink).

So if neither type of interaction occurs then they do not interact at all .... which, I suppose, in a way, is the same as saying Dark Matter or Dark Energy.

But I am far from the insights of Feynman, and my explanation may have nothing to do with the reasons he believed that no interaction would occur.

csmyth3025":25uzlyqn said:
Also, although sugar and saccharin are mirror image molecules and saccharin cannot be digestd biologically due to its "left-hand" twist, I'm not sure there is any evidence that this property of molecular biology extends to physical processes or to atoms.
Feynman uses both in his lecture on Symmetry. And remarks on the above, 'this may be the greatest achievement of mankind, to discover that we are all descended from a single 'ancestor' who chose right instead of left. He was not referring to life on Earth, but to the Cosmos ( I tink ) I may have the words wrong. He was referring to the fact that the Universe displays 'handedness' ... there is a difference between right and left, north and south, that can be measured by weak-beta decay. And that this difference governs cosmic-evolution or asymmetry.

At the molecular level, not the molecular biology level, this symmetry between left and right can be seen in the matrix (chiral ?) that locks the molecules together. And I think this was the point of his lecture, that matter can be assembled in four shapes ?

csmyth3025":25uzlyqn said:
Like MW, I'm still having a hard time picturing what a mirror image hydrogen atom would look like or how it would be different from a regular hydrogen atom.

Chris
I don't quite understand this. The four forms of matter can be made, according to Feynman, in our labs, in theory, from matter and anti-matter. All these particles have been confirmed ... so are you proposing a new-particle ? Its the asymmetry between the four forms of matter that govern they're interactions, not a new atom ?

This is a very loose explanation of the Lee Yang experiment, and you should check for yourself. If you take a bar of cobalt and wrap a magnetic field around it and freeze it down and then count the number of electrons coming off the north pole and the number coming off the south pole you would expect them to be equal. But they're not. This is because of weak beta decay. Reflexion Symmetry is broken. Turns out this is true for all matter not just frozen cobalt.

So now if you place a mirror behind the cobalt bar you see a mirror image of your experiment.

But the mirror image is reversed thru all its symmetries, this includes the flow of the field (note you have to use a right hand rule) so the electrons being emitted will not tally with the mirror symmetry. There is now nothing to stop you removing the mirror and replacing it with a mirror-image-cobalt-experiment built out of ordinary matter ? You only have to reverse the field.

This is the same as saying that if you stand in front of the mirror and lift your left hand, then the man in the mirror lifts his left also, according to weak beta decay. Reflexion Symmetry is broken.

You cannot shake hands or interact with such a person, in the normal way ?

cool bananas ... greg
 
C

csmyth3025

Guest
These concepts are a bit out of my league. Hopefully, someone with a greater knowledge of the experiments and conjectures to which you refer will be able to provide some informed commentary on this.

Chris
 
D

Danggali

Guest
csmyth3025":c73r9due said:
These concepts are a bit out of my league. Hopefully, someone with a greater knowledge of the experiments and conjectures to which you refer will be able to provide some informed commentary on this.

Chris
Thank you for your reply. I thought you bought up some very good points.

cool bananas ... greg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY

Latest posts