missile plumes

[gtnick]

Does anyone know what kind of information is required to match a missile plume. I'm trying to develop a model which will allow me to match a given missile exhaust plume, mainly through infrared. Thanks.

 

[henryhallam]

<font color="yellow"><br />Does anyone know what kind of information...</font><br />The classified kind!

 

[vogon13]

SSME would be pretty easy to ID at long range due to the high UV levels.<br /><br />If you look at a plume and don't see that, you have narrowed down the search to some variety of solid rocket propellant, LOX and a hydrocarbon, or hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide.<br /><br />Somebody help me here if I missed one.<br /><br />Seems like looking for carbon and aluminum in the exhaust would be pretty definitive without getting to far into the classified world. (no carbon in hydrazine and N2O2 and no aluminum in anything but solid fuel.<br /><br />SS1 has a weird fuel mix, but hopefully your travel agent would help you sort out those launches.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[propforce]

<font color="yellow">..... I'm trying to develop a model which will allow me to match a given missile exhaust plume, mainly through infrared. Thanks. </font><br /><br />Just through infra red? <br /><br />Well... that's easy. Just apply your regular heat-seeking IR sensor in the missile nose. The only question is how would you discriminate the heat source? Are they anti-missile flares? Sun? or the target that you really want? <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Why do you want to know?<br /><br />This is a strange venue to ask such a question.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[heliox]

Im guessing remotely youd need some sort of spectroscopic analysis but even that would be hard due to differing sun angles/haze/lighting conditions etc.<br /><br />Basically youd be looking for a unique chemical signature in a spectra and either comparing to a pre-loaded library (fast) or working out the likely ingredients and going from there (very slow).<br /><br />Oh, theres a reason the military are designing modern missiles to be smoke-free (AMRAAM latest modification etc). <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />The current warning systems on modern warplanes although mainly still classified are based initially on detecting the IR flare of a launch.

 

[propforce]

<font color="yellow">Why do you want to know? <br /><br />This is a strange venue to ask such a question. </font><br /><br />7 or 8 years ago (that was 3~4 years prior to 9-11), we'd get lots of questions on "how do I design a ground-to-air missile?" type questions on yahoo message boards. When you check the profiles, these guys were "students" posting from Iran and Iraq ! <br /><br />Just another sober reminder. Never forget 9-11. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[gtnick]

I'm trying to come up with some kind of code to match foreign missile plumes, just for eductational purposes. No malice of forethought.

 

[drwayne]

Work in the area of infrared plumes, basic plume chemistry, species concentrations and temperatures and radiance transport, is almost exclusively in the regime of military application. Tools in this area have been developed over decades.<br /><br />Bottom line. There are not many tools in this area that are in anything like the public domain, and you are less than likely to get answers that are useful in an open forum such as this.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[josh_simonson]

Yup, welcome to a CIA database. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[propforce]

<font color="yellow">Work in the area of infrared plumes, basic plume chemistry, species concentrations and temperatures and radiance transport, is almost exclusively in the regime of military application. </font><br /><br />Well... not quite. Spacecraft & launch vehicle people study plume & contamination quite a bit as well. <br /><br />For example, I can calculate a plume profile, species, temperatures, and transport properties distribution as a function of altitude, but I gotta know who you are and what you're using the data for.<br /><br />For further info. Please e-mail me at propforce@profiler.cia.gov <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[drwayne]

You are a gas!<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

I am sure he has a passing acquaintance with that sort of outgassing phenomenology....<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>