Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moons ranked second

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venator_3000

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>NASA and ESA have decided. It will be Europa/Ganymede first (EJSM), then, later, (5, 7 years later?) Enceladus/Titan (TSSM)http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/20090218.htmlhttp://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMPHGWX3RF_index_0.html <br />Posted by h2ouniverse</DIV><br /><br />What I've seen suggests NASA and ESA will each send a satellite. The NASA satellite would spend more time near Europa, but would have to be shielded due to the high radiation levels. Also, there is some talk about penetrators being sent to the surface to sample ice chemistry, etc. The ESA probe would be sent to Ganymede's (Ganymedean?) orbit.</p><p><img src="http://opfm.jpl.nasa.gov/images/jeo.jpg" border="0" alt="Jupiter Europa Orbiter" hspace="5" vspace="5" align="center" />Europa orbiter (NASA)</p><p><img src="http://opfm.jpl.nasa.gov/images/jgo.jpg" border="0" alt="Jupiter Ganymede Orbiter" hspace="5" vspace="5" align="center" />Ganymede orbiter (ESA)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Based on their schedule it looks like launch circa 2020 with arrival in '26. </p><p><img src="http://opfm.jpl.nasa.gov/files/schedulelarge.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="188" /></p><p>Very exciting and I hope they are actually able to have two probes in the Jupiter system at the same time. </p><p>V3K</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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<p><font size="2"><strong>Also the Europa Orbiter is likely to encounter Io a few times prior to EOI, hopefully getting to see the Jupiter facing side in high resolution & also to get a detailed global view of the volcanic activity & changes since the Galileo & New Horizons data prior to EOI.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Obviously Europa will be searched for signs of the purported sub surface ocean, which as yet is still theoretical, based on some circumstantial evidence rather than based on solid fact, but will get to see the entire surface in high resolution & perhaps see any changes, though compared to Io, Europa will seem inactive. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Another possibility will be to confirm or deny whether Europa cryovolcanically resurfaces itself periodically (Venus is thought to resurface itself periodically with lava.&nbsp; Io is being seen to do so with sulphur & fresh lava flows).&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>The ESA Ganymede Orbiter will hopefully fully map Callisto in detail through several encounters, thus providing a global context in cratering sizes & density on the planet sized moon, revealing much about the cratering history of the Jovian system.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Once Ganymede is reached, than hopefully the global context of the cratering, striations, faulting & cryovolcanic features will shed light on why Ganymede approx 1GYA appears to have had a secondary flush of activity (most likely being pulled temporarily out of the current orbit into a more elliptical one. Did a massive body pass through the Jovian system back then)? </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Also long term monitoring of the internaly driven magnetosphere should help refine data on the interior (Ganymede appears to be one of the most differentiated bodies in the entire solar system, including a dual layered core). </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>It makes sense at the current time for NASA to concentrate on Io, Europa & near Jupiter space as NASA have considerable experience with craft in high radiation environments.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>The ESA will do a smashing job with both Callisto & Ganymede prior to GOI.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>The Saturn system is & will for a while yet receive considerable attention from Cassini, where as Jupiter has had very little aside from New Horizons pass since Galileo. Also Galileo while sending back a huge amount of new information from the Jovian system, was not able to carry out many of the objectives due to the faulty, not fully deployed HGA particularly the high resolution global imagery & mapping of the Galilean moons & Jupiter weather filming.</strong></font></p><p><strong><font size="2">IMO the correct decision has been made, though to have craft sent to both Jupiter & Saturn together would certainly have been interesting, but the thing is, we still get to have both Jupiter & Saturn missions.&nbsp; </font></strong></p><p><font size="2"><strong>If NH2 / ARGO gets approved, we'll have a brief Saturn encounter whilst on route to Neptune / Triton & the KB.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Enough of my waffling perhaps. <br /></strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown. </strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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<blockquote><p>Pasadena, CA, - The Planetary Society today made this statement on the new outer planet flagship mission to Europa selected by NASA and ESA: <br /><br />"A mission to Jupiter's icy moon, Europa, will take us to one of the most likely habitats in the Solar System (other than Earth) where life might have evolved," said Louis Friedman, Executive Director of The Planetary Society. "The Planetary Society has campaigned strongly to convince Congress that NASA should undertake such a mission, and we are delighted that it is being organized as an international project -- making the mission more affordable and increasing its support."</p><p>http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001849/</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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h2ouniverse

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<p>ESA will downselect two large missions out of three (JGO=Jupiter-Ganymede Orbiter, IXO=International Xray Observatory and LISA=gravity waves detection) in 2010 for its Cosmic Vision after phase A studies, then to just one in 2012 after phase B1 studies. Should ESA fail to seize this wonderful opportunity and go to IXO or LISA instead, NASA would still be able to do a Ganymede Orbiter as part of New Frontiers program.</p><p>This ability to easily reconfigure the sharing has probably played in favor of the Jovian system mission versus Tthe Saturnian system mission&nbsp;(where contributions would have been more intricated).</p><p>Racall of acronyms:</p><p>EJSM = Europa and Jupiter System Mission = JEO+JGO = Jupiter Europa Orbiter + Jupiter Ganymede Orbiter</p><p><br />This being said, I hope ESA will not fail NASA and go to Ganymede.&nbsp; I hope too that the Ganymede science will be enhanced by penetrators. Ganymede's main interest is indeed its internal structure and that would be a pity not to take benefit from JGO to do so.</p><p>I hope too that the science from JEO will be upgraded, for currently this is "just" an orbiter. It should IMHO at least be capable of determining a landing site for a future Lander with a drill capacity of several meters, at a place of recent upwelling from the subsurface ocean, suitable for search of bio-markers.</p>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>ESA will downselect two large missions out of three (JGO, IXO and LISA) in 2010 for its Cosmic Vision after phase A studies, then to just one in 2012 after phase B1 studies. Should ESA fail to seize this wonderful opportunity and go to IXO or LISA instead, NASA would still be able to do a Ganymede Orbiter as part of New Frontiers program.This ability to easily reconfigure the sharing has probably played in favor of EJSM-JEO-JGO versus TSSM (where contributions would have been more intricated).This being said, I hope ESA will not fail NASA and go to Ganymede.&nbsp; I hope too that the Ganymede science will be enhanced by penetrators. Ganymede's main interest is indeed its internal structure and that would be a pity not to take benefit from JGO to do so.I hope too that the science from JEO will be upgraded, for currently this is "just" an orbiter. It should IMHO at least be capable of determining a landing site for a future Lander with a drill capacity of several meters, at a place of recent upwelling from the subsurface ocean, suitable for search of bio-markers. <br />Posted by h2ouniverse</DIV><br /><br />For those who might not be familiar, could you decode your acronym salad? While we know what the missions stand for, other readers might not. It would be nice to share... :) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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Oh boy, now I know the next mission for me to get REALLY excited about!&nbsp; I mean, Dawn and Rosetta and such are cool, but a trip to the Galilean satellites . . . oh, that is awesome! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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montmein69

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<p>As I understand the ESA article :</p><p><font color="#339966">NASA will build one spacecraft, initially named Jupiter Europa Orbiter. ESA will build the other spacecraft, initially named Jupiter Ganymede Orbiter. The two spacecraft are scheduled to launch in 2020 on two separate launch vehicles from different launch sites. They will reach the Jupiter system in 2026 and spend at least three years conducting research. </font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Each agency build a spacecraft and launch it for the <u>Jovian missions</u> </p><p>- The main name is : "<strong>Europa Jupiter System Mission</strong>" but ... IMHO .... "Europa-Ganymede Jupiter system Mission" would have been better:</p><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; * NASA spacecraft .... focused on Europa</p><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; * ESA spacecraft ... focused on Ganymede </p><p>&nbsp;</p><font color="#339966">The Titan Saturn System Mission would consist of a NASA orbiter and an ESA lander and research balloon. The complex mission poses several technical challenges requiring significant study and technology development. NASA will continue to study and develop those technologies. The National Academy in Washington is beginning to piece together the roadmap for new NASA planetary missions to begin after 2013. On the European side, interested scientists will have to re-submit the Titan mission at the next opportunity for mission proposals in the Cosmic Vision programme. </font><p>For the <u>Saturn mission</u>&nbsp; named "<strong>Titan Saturn System Mission"</strong></p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; * a common spacecraft&nbsp; built by NASA</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; * payload comprised a lander and a balloon&nbsp; built by ESA</p><p>&nbsp;Although the funding is not yet decided for the Titan Saturn System Mission on the UE side, I strongly hope&nbsp; that ESA and NASA will get funding and "brain" to succceed in this amazing program ! </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

Hi nimbus,

Any hich hicking microbes will not be havng a welcome mat waiting for them on Europa.

Mind you knowing how tough some terrestrial extremophiles are, I suppose we cannot be complacent. Myself as a mission finale, as fuel margins start running low, I think leaving Europa orbit & a live approach, sending back constant images & other data & impact on Io would be ideal.

That's my tuppence worth anyway.

Andrew Brown.
 
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tanstaafl76

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

Europa? Geez, what part of "Attempt no landing there" do they not understand!? :p
 
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nimbus

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

3488":1ipu3nzj said:
Mind you knowing how tough some terrestrial extremophiles are, I suppose we cannot be complacent. Myself as a mission finale, as fuel margins start running low, I think leaving Europa orbit & a live approach, sending back constant images & other data & impact on Io would be ideal.
Exactly what I was thinking.. Really odd to crash a probe into what might be the only other water ocean in the solar system.
 
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matthewota

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

One of the reasons the Europa mission was selected is that it was less technically risky than a Titan mission.
Judging by the low resolution images of the orbiter, I see no solar panels. With the recent shortage of RTG fuel from the Energy department this may be the last nuclear powered spacecraft.
 
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3488

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

Hi matthewota.

That is all too true. I had read about the shortage of RTG fuel before a while back, well quite a while back & that New Horizons was likely to be the last for a while to use it. If ARGO / New Horizons 2 (not the original New Horizons 2 mission which was to have rendezvoused with Jupiter, Uranus & a binary KBO) is approved (Saturn, Neptune / Triton & KBO encounters) will have to use an RTG, there is no getting around that.

My guess is that the next Saturn system dedicated mission what ever that turns out to be, most likely the TSSM (Titan Saturn System Mission) will have to use RTG power. LILT may be workable but IMO arrays will still be huge, massive & combersome to work at Saturn.

The upcoming JUNO mission will use something similar to the ESA researched LILT (Low Intensity Low Light) panels, & certainly the Europa & Ganymede orbiters can use them. The proposed Io Volcano Observer could also use LILT though the high radiation there may degrade them, but then JUNO is using them, so perhaps not.

IIRC LILT panels may be usable eventually as far from the Sun as Uranus, but I think that is some time away yet as electronics become more efficient, smaller & use less power, its taking time, but it's coming.

Interesting indeed.

Andrew Brown.
 
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matthewota

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

I wish I could find more engineering data on Juno, all I can get are low res graphics.
 
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Boris_Badenov

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

A Bimodal MITEE Engine would be the way to power these missions. A single spacecraft could get there in 3 to 6 months & have enough power to move from moon to moon & operate just about any scientific instrument you want to include.
If properly configured, it could even do sample returns in a very reasonable time frame.
Nuclear is the only way to go & the sooner we build the first one the sooner we can shut up the screamers that want to see the Human Race as an evolutionary dead end.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Re: Mission to Jovian moons baselined, Mission to Saturnian moon

Just something to consider; the current Europa mission no longer includes any kind of a lander, we we really won't get too much closer to determining whether there's a possibly biotic ocean beneath the ice. I find that very disappointing, and have to wonder whether it's worth the money :(
 
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