Re: Moon Landings Faked?
That's so true...it really is about perception. The mass media advertising (radio, television, internet, billboards- or whatever other source marketers use to get a message out to people) have the power to create an idea in someone's mind that is not necessarily true. The general population of people are very suggestible... if one credible person or source says it's true...the message spreads like wildfire. And just because that one credible source said it...it must be true, right? It's flawed logic that causes crazy stories like these to come about- but if you really use your brain and think about it for a minute or two-you realize that the truth is pretty obvious. Millions of people stood there watching the darn shuttle take off, and then return. Eyewitness accounts. There are documented videos and photos...how could one say that this didn't happen with all of the underlying evidence? I mean, seriously, is the human race really smart enough yet to know how to make MILLIONS of people have a mass shared delusion? It doesn't seem very plausible...
http://www.blackduvetcover.net
jim48":1ptj0bia said:
That's so true...it really is about perception. The mass media advertising (radio, television, internet, billboards- or whatever other source marketers use to get a message out to people) have the power to create an idea in someone's mind that is not necessarily true. The general population of people are very suggestible... if one credible person or source says it's true...the message spreads like wildfire. And just because that one credible source said it...it must be true, right? It's flawed logic that causes crazy stories like these to come about- but if you really use your brain and think about it for a minute or two-you realize that the truth is pretty obvious. Millions of people stood there watching the darn shuttle take off, and then return. Eyewitness accounts. There are documented videos and photos...how could one say that this didn't happen with all of the underlying evidence? I mean, seriously, is the human race really smart enough yet to know how to make MILLIONS of people have a mass shared delusion? It doesn't seem very plausible...
http://www.blackduvetcover.net
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
No, not even close. Those photos could have been faked just as easily as some of the original photos that are now generally acknowledged as fakes.2001Kubrick":2dfx4x2b said:I think we can close this thread now. The LRO provided us with great photos, which in proved that the Apollo LMs landed on the moon. The conspiracy theorists have been debunked.
Case closed
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
There is no proof that a conspiracy theorist would accept. We should leave the moon-hoaxers to wallow in their delusions.
As I said earlier, if you took a moon-hoaxer to the moon and put him in a spacesuit and let him investigate the landing sites in person, he still wouldn't believe it.
Kerberos":3n8tuovd said:No, not even close. Those photos could have been faked just as easily as some of the original photos that are now generally acknowledged as fakes.2001Kubrick":3n8tuovd said:I think we can close this thread now. The LRO provided us with great photos, which in proved that the Apollo LMs landed on the moon. The conspiracy theorists have been debunked.
Case closed
There is no proof that a conspiracy theorist would accept. We should leave the moon-hoaxers to wallow in their delusions.
As I said earlier, if you took a moon-hoaxer to the moon and put him in a spacesuit and let him investigate the landing sites in person, he still wouldn't believe it.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
True, conspiracy theorists are hard to convince to the contrary. However, there are some fairly incontrovertible facts that are hard to counter by them.
We were in the height of the Cold War with the Soviets. Does anyone think for a minute that they'd have let us get away with faking the landings? It would have been the propaganda coup of the century. And they were no fools, and were watching our every move.
On the close order of 250,000 people worked in or around Apollo. If there was a conspiracy to fake the landings, every last one of them have kept their mouths shut for 40 years? Hardly.
Items such as those.
True, conspiracy theorists are hard to convince to the contrary. However, there are some fairly incontrovertible facts that are hard to counter by them.
We were in the height of the Cold War with the Soviets. Does anyone think for a minute that they'd have let us get away with faking the landings? It would have been the propaganda coup of the century. And they were no fools, and were watching our every move.
On the close order of 250,000 people worked in or around Apollo. If there was a conspiracy to fake the landings, every last one of them have kept their mouths shut for 40 years? Hardly.
Items such as those.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Well, in that case, the world might still be flat. Perhaps all the satellite imagery that shows the round earth has been faked as well. That is why I said that there is as much evidence for a flat earth as there is an Apollo hoax.
The problem with conspiracy theories is: where do you draw the line? They can just keep claiming a bigger and bigger conspiracy and eventually, it will be impossible to disprove.
Kerberos":11wr7y5y said:No, not even close. Those photos could have been faked just as easily as some of the original photos that are now generally acknowledged as fakes.2001Kubrick":11wr7y5y said:I think we can close this thread now. The LRO provided us with great photos, which in proved that the Apollo LMs landed on the moon. The conspiracy theorists have been debunked.
Case closed
Well, in that case, the world might still be flat. Perhaps all the satellite imagery that shows the round earth has been faked as well. That is why I said that there is as much evidence for a flat earth as there is an Apollo hoax.
The problem with conspiracy theories is: where do you draw the line? They can just keep claiming a bigger and bigger conspiracy and eventually, it will be impossible to disprove.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
"They can just keep claiming a bigger and bigger conspiracy and eventually, it will be impossible to disprove."
Exactly. If someone is convinced in the truth or falsity of something, then all evidence to the contrary of that belief
can be dismissed.
In this case, one can always fall back on the "but this hardware was not actually placed here in 1969, they had
to wait this long to "confirm" things until they actually could plant the evidence"
Wayne
"They can just keep claiming a bigger and bigger conspiracy and eventually, it will be impossible to disprove."
Exactly. If someone is convinced in the truth or falsity of something, then all evidence to the contrary of that belief
can be dismissed.
In this case, one can always fall back on the "but this hardware was not actually placed here in 1969, they had
to wait this long to "confirm" things until they actually could plant the evidence"
Wayne
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Yevaud- It was more like 400,000 people that worked in and around the Apollo program. Two people can't keep a secret, and if three know, it's no longer a secret.
Besides, why would we fake it six times?
Conspiraparanoidiotsynpattern.
I'm so sick of conspiracy imbeciles I could just SCREAM! Or, like Billy Jack, 'just go berserk!' :evil:
Yevaud- It was more like 400,000 people that worked in and around the Apollo program. Two people can't keep a secret, and if three know, it's no longer a secret.
Besides, why would we fake it six times?
Conspiraparanoidiotsynpattern.
I'm so sick of conspiracy imbeciles I could just SCREAM! Or, like Billy Jack, 'just go berserk!' :evil:
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
I was also counting contractors, other related governmental employees, and the military.
I'd think also that if anyone really considered the events as they unfolded, they'd realize it's an absurd premise. You couldn't fake the Saturn V nor it's capabilities; it's flight path to the moon, insertion into Lunar orbit, and departure back to Earth couldn't have been faked either.
So we built every capability required to land men on Luna, but then faked everything? There's *zero* benefit in that for us. If we could accomplish all of that, build it and launch it, then why fake anything? To what end? We didn't save a red damned cent.
Oh, and the conspiracy nuts fail to also acknowledge that having done so, we were then obligated to also fake each successive Apollo mission as well. More evidence, more witnesses, etc.
Simply absurd.
I was also counting contractors, other related governmental employees, and the military.
I'd think also that if anyone really considered the events as they unfolded, they'd realize it's an absurd premise. You couldn't fake the Saturn V nor it's capabilities; it's flight path to the moon, insertion into Lunar orbit, and departure back to Earth couldn't have been faked either.
So we built every capability required to land men on Luna, but then faked everything? There's *zero* benefit in that for us. If we could accomplish all of that, build it and launch it, then why fake anything? To what end? We didn't save a red damned cent.
Oh, and the conspiracy nuts fail to also acknowledge that having done so, we were then obligated to also fake each successive Apollo mission as well. More evidence, more witnesses, etc.
Simply absurd.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Unfortunately for NASA and the true believers, faking it numerous times does not make it any more true than faking it once.
In order to make precisely the argument you are attempting to make. To make people believe that they had perfected the engineering and science. Why do you think they kept pretending to get better at it?ZenGalacticore":2h1kkdx8 said:
Unfortunately for NASA and the true believers, faking it numerous times does not make it any more true than faking it once.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
IMO... real or sci-fi....still made good for up and coming events! I am from Tucson and appreciate all the new landing we achieve today - yesterday - and - Tommorow
IMO... real or sci-fi....still made good for up and coming events! I am from Tucson and appreciate all the new landing we achieve today - yesterday - and - Tommorow
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
I had an interesting conversation with a colleague a couple of days a go. An intelligent woman with a post graduate degree, none the less, after seeing the Fox "documentary" had doubts. A couple of us pointed out that the onus of proof was on her and asked what evidence would satisfy her. She could not answer either point but persisted in doubting (even though my 14 year old daughter picked the flaws in the "documentary". In it an interesting insight into the contemporary mind set that irrational doubt seems preferable to rational belief.
On another issue, to my knowledge I have met seven people face to face who doubt that we went to the Moon. Of those six were women. Is this significant? I don't know. Certainly most of the high profile hoax believers are men.
Jon
I had an interesting conversation with a colleague a couple of days a go. An intelligent woman with a post graduate degree, none the less, after seeing the Fox "documentary" had doubts. A couple of us pointed out that the onus of proof was on her and asked what evidence would satisfy her. She could not answer either point but persisted in doubting (even though my 14 year old daughter picked the flaws in the "documentary". In it an interesting insight into the contemporary mind set that irrational doubt seems preferable to rational belief.
On another issue, to my knowledge I have met seven people face to face who doubt that we went to the Moon. Of those six were women. Is this significant? I don't know. Certainly most of the high profile hoax believers are men.
Jon
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Oh shut-up Kerb! :lol: :lol: :lol:
The 'imperfection' of Apollo 11 should've been enough! :lol: :lol:
I tell ya man, I hear what you're saying and I knew someone would finally say it! :lol:
(I know that you are a realist/believer) But as you well know, "conspiraparanoidiots" will find a reason to accept their delusionary fantasies no matter what. God Himself could come down and say: "Yes! I created this (and other) universe of bending, malleable, warping flexible, expanding spacetime and matter."
And there would still be nut-jobs who would swear to Him that he faked it. :lol:
Kerberos":els1jvcj said:
Oh shut-up Kerb! :lol: :lol: :lol:
The 'imperfection' of Apollo 11 should've been enough! :lol: :lol:
I tell ya man, I hear what you're saying and I knew someone would finally say it! :lol:
(I know that you are a realist/believer) But as you well know, "conspiraparanoidiots" will find a reason to accept their delusionary fantasies no matter what. God Himself could come down and say: "Yes! I created this (and other) universe
And there would still be nut-jobs who would swear to Him that he faked it. :lol:
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Sure it does. Every time you go to the moon (or fake it, in the hoaxers case) the odds of someone spilling the beans goes up exponentially. The fact that there were six successful Apollo missions makes an already remote possibility of fakery next to impossible.
I think the main problem with conspiracy theorists is that they don't respect the math involved. If something is that unlikely (let's assume 1:10,000,000,000 chance of fakery) , then for all practical purposes, the odds of fakery are 0:1. It cannot happen.
Kerberos":363ctx39 said:
Sure it does. Every time you go to the moon (or fake it, in the hoaxers case) the odds of someone spilling the beans goes up exponentially. The fact that there were six successful Apollo missions makes an already remote possibility of fakery next to impossible.
I think the main problem with conspiracy theorists is that they don't respect the math involved. If something is that unlikely (let's assume 1:10,000,000,000 chance of fakery) , then for all practical purposes, the odds of fakery are 0:1. It cannot happen.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
That is complete and utter nonsense!
Go to http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html
Click on "Hasselblad film magazines" (site is java driven so I cannot do direct links)
Go to the Apollo 11 section and click on "40/S (Color) EVA"
AS11-40-5904 - PLSS closeup (inadvertent shutter release)
AS11-40-5916 - Neil Armstrong steps out of frame to the left in this photo of the Solar Wind Experiment
AS11-40-5965 - (inadvertent shutter release)
AS11-40-5970 - End of film, sun exposed.
These are just a few examples from one roll of film and there are a few blurred shots, and a lot more of them than I posted above are badly composed.
Should I bother reading any further through your post?
Perhaps you should so some proper research yourself, rather than blindly believing what people tell you, eh?
EDIT: The post I was replying to seems to have gone! I will leave this post here, seeing as I spent the time doing the research.
AnitaE1975":1zl6thml said:
That is complete and utter nonsense!
Go to http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html
Click on "Hasselblad film magazines" (site is java driven so I cannot do direct links)
Go to the Apollo 11 section and click on "40/S (Color) EVA"
AS11-40-5904 - PLSS closeup (inadvertent shutter release)
AS11-40-5916 - Neil Armstrong steps out of frame to the left in this photo of the Solar Wind Experiment
AS11-40-5965 - (inadvertent shutter release)
AS11-40-5970 - End of film, sun exposed.
These are just a few examples from one roll of film and there are a few blurred shots, and a lot more of them than I posted above are badly composed.
Should I bother reading any further through your post?
Perhaps you should so some proper research yourself, rather than blindly believing what people tell you, eh?
EDIT: The post I was replying to seems to have gone! I will leave this post here, seeing as I spent the time doing the research.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Generally, there are three types of people that puch the "We did not go to the Moon" theory:
1. Writers and producers thea want to make money
2. People who lack critical thinking skills and lack the ability to think logically
3. Conspiracy Theory fans that in many cases are mentally ill, and believe that the government is always up to nefarious activities.
I have a feeling that most of the people that are 50 years of age and older do not believe in such a conspiracy. They were alive at the time of the moon landings. I was one of them.
I know for a fact that there is overwhelming evidence of our trips to the Moon. I have given up arguing about it because I consider the case closed. I also have little patience left with dealing with fractured ceramics.
Generally, there are three types of people that puch the "We did not go to the Moon" theory:
1. Writers and producers thea want to make money
2. People who lack critical thinking skills and lack the ability to think logically
3. Conspiracy Theory fans that in many cases are mentally ill, and believe that the government is always up to nefarious activities.
I have a feeling that most of the people that are 50 years of age and older do not believe in such a conspiracy. They were alive at the time of the moon landings. I was one of them.
I know for a fact that there is overwhelming evidence of our trips to the Moon. I have given up arguing about it because I consider the case closed. I also have little patience left with dealing with fractured ceramics.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
I do recall speaking to some folks at the time of Apollo who already were repeating the "they're
not actually on the moon you know" line.
I do recall speaking to some folks at the time of Apollo who already were repeating the "they're
not actually on the moon you know" line.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Speed and Force and Will is Why I Continue To Challenge My Children. Remember; We All Matter And Are A Small Part of the Big Idea....
Speed and Force and Will is Why I Continue To Challenge My Children. Remember; We All Matter And Are A Small Part of the Big Idea....
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Are you serious? Wow. So, do you believe in a round earth or is that fake too?
Anyways, the only hoaxers I usually encounter are uneducated young kids that heard from "somewhere" that that moon landings were "faked". I think it's more a sign of the times of a declining education system more than anything. But, every once in a while, I come across someone who's reasonably intelligent and educated that has doubts. It floors me that such air tight evidence somehow does not convince them.
I find it fascinating to read what psychologists feel explains the need for conspiracy theories:
form wiki:
"Psychologists believe that the search for meaning is common in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories, and may be powerful enough alone to lead to the first formulating of the idea. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part."
In other words, it's rarely about science and more about what one's peers think.
Kerberos":1e7g847e said:
Are you serious? Wow. So, do you believe in a round earth or is that fake too?
Anyways, the only hoaxers I usually encounter are uneducated young kids that heard from "somewhere" that that moon landings were "faked". I think it's more a sign of the times of a declining education system more than anything. But, every once in a while, I come across someone who's reasonably intelligent and educated that has doubts. It floors me that such air tight evidence somehow does not convince them.
I find it fascinating to read what psychologists feel explains the need for conspiracy theories:
form wiki:
"Psychologists believe that the search for meaning is common in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories, and may be powerful enough alone to lead to the first formulating of the idea. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part."
In other words, it's rarely about science and more about what one's peers think.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Of course, there were a lot more people who would also state things about "throwing away money up in space"
when there were so many people "right here on Earth" who needed help.
While the hoaxers took some looking to find, the one's complaining about the impractical use of money were
much easier to find.
Wayne
drwayne":245r25r4 said:
Of course, there were a lot more people who would also state things about "throwing away money up in space"
when there were so many people "right here on Earth" who needed help.
While the hoaxers took some looking to find, the one's complaining about the impractical use of money were
much easier to find.
Wayne
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
http://www.moonviews.com/archives/2009/ ... t_hum.html
Not that it will change anyone's opinion mind you....
http://www.moonviews.com/archives/2009/ ... t_hum.html
Not that it will change anyone's opinion mind you....
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
Not to speak for K, but I believe he is being overly sarcastic about this whole thing.
2001Kubrick":397tl1ma said:
Not to speak for K, but I believe he is being overly sarcastic about this whole thing.
Re: Moon Landings Faked?
One would think, that with all the historical knowledge, all the human experience of the last 5,000 to 10,000 years, and all of it if-still not necessarily all at our fingertips- is still in our libraries, that short-sightedness would be a thing of the past. NOT! (Apparently.)
Being somewhat facetious, I think that anyone who thinks of our collective endeavors in space to be 'a waste of money or time' should be forced to have the words: "I'm a Short-sighted Idiot" tattoed on their foreheads! :lol: Well, that's too Hitlerian. More American style, force them to put a bumper-sticker on their car stating the same!
drwayne":10byjqvt said:
One would think, that with all the historical knowledge, all the human experience of the last 5,000 to 10,000 years, and all of it if-still not necessarily all at our fingertips- is still in our libraries, that short-sightedness would be a thing of the past. NOT! (Apparently.)
Being somewhat facetious, I think that anyone who thinks of our collective endeavors in space to be 'a waste of money or time' should be forced to have the words: "I'm a Short-sighted Idiot" tattoed on their foreheads! :lol: Well, that's too Hitlerian. More American style, force them to put a bumper-sticker on their car stating the same!
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