MOOSE - an oldie but a goodie

[CalliArcale]

Since we've got some new members here, and since it seems about time for a fresh topic, here's one that's always fun: unrealized concepts for space escape and/or rescue. Some are pretty sensible. Some sound terrifying. Others seem downright hare-brained. But they're all interesting to read about. So to get folks started, here's the wonderful article that pulls it all together at astronautix.com:<br /><br />Bail Out!<br /><br />From coffin-like lifeboats with no reentry capability to MOOSE and other one-man concepts that would have to be the wildest ride of one's life to things which nearly became a reality such as the CRV (X-38 prototype shown) and the Apollo Rescue CSM almost sent up to Skylab. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

A related discussion of orbital bailout:<br /><br />http://yarchive.net/space/launchers/personal_reentry.html<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[spacester]

I think it will be a new x-sport. The ulitimate free fall.<br /><br />IIRC, Shuttle_Guy has said he'd do it under the right circumstances. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Since we've got some new members here, and since it seems about time for a fresh topic, here's one that's always fun</font>/i><br /><br />PLEASE... AND THANK YOU!! We need some more informative, interesting, or just fun topics. Perhaps we should ban the word "kill" <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /></i>

 

[tap_sa]

<font color="yellow">"Either one VERY hard shot before it could drift off, or a long, slow burn probably sending you toward Venus or some other bad place."</font><br /><br />The reentry burn deltav is very small, around 80m/s. It's the same whether you are an orbiter or astronaut riding MOOSE. There's not enough dv to get to Venus or anywhere from LEO, but if you waste it in the wrong direction then there is trouble for sure because the person using this gadget probably hasn't much lifesupport left, except that of his spacesuit which is usually measured in hours. Modern tech will help though, a miniatyre IMU in the retropack can guide the astronaut to do the thrusting in the right direction. The last resort is trying to face the earth and use Mark-I eyeball to see which direction you are going.<br /><br />I believe when CATS and private space travelling really kicks off we will see the rebirth of MOOSE like escape systems, for both safety and thrill.

 

[tap_sa]

<font color="yellow">"A related discussion of orbital bailout: "</font><br /><br />Intersting link, thanks! The orbital parachute (with beefed up spacesuit) sounds quite mass-efficient solution. I wonder how it would fare aborting in various stages during launch. Before the LV reaches orbit you wouldn't even need the retropack, just bail out and deploy chute?

 

[drwayne]

Depending on the timeline of the ascent, the big problem would of course be what one is bailing out into.<br /><br />Bailing out into the atmospheric slip stream would probably ruin ones day, as would bailing when the solids are still firing.<br /><br />Leaving in the orbital regime is of course an easier environment. Doesn't that sound weird coming out....<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Intersting link, thanks! The orbital parachute (with beefed up spacesuit) sounds quite mass-efficient solution. I wonder how it would fare aborting in various stages during launch. Before the LV reaches orbit you wouldn't even need the retropack, just bail out and deploy chute?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Well, the Gemini and Vostok vehicles had traditional ejection seats that woudl work the way you're describing, but only in a very limited set of circumstances. They weren't useful on the pad (well, I suppose you'd eject if you had to on the pad, because it's better than certain death, but odds would be good you'd die anyway because you're too close to the ground) and I don't think they were designed for supersonic ejection. Vostok's ejection seats were routinely used, however, to eject the cosmonaut before landing (after reentry and deceleration to subsonic speeds). So that might give you some ideas.<br /><br />Columbia carried two ejection seats, once upon a time, for the early test launches (which had only two crew). These were, I believe, modified SR-71 ejection seats, designed for escape at high altitude from a supersonic aircraft. Even so, they were not useful in many circumstances, because they too had their limits. (They also imposed a substantial weight penalty; although the seats themselves were removed, much of their infrastructure could not be easily removed, and Columbia was always the heaviest Orbiter as a result.) Supersonic travel is difficult enough for an ejection system; hypersonic travel is even worse. Tiny shifts in a vehicle's shape (as caused by protruding gap fillers, or by the much more catastrophic damage to Columbia as the left wing deformed due to the intrusion of hot gases) can have considerable impact on the vehicle's performance. Consider how much more affect you'll get from blowing open a hatch to eject a crewman. It is a very complicated problem to solve. To date, al <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Holding MOOSE steady and pointed in the right direction through retrofire might have been "interesting".<br /><br />Either one VERY hard shot before it could drift off, or a long, slow burn probably sending you toward Venus or some other bad place. Neither one sounds inviting.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />It kinda feels a bit MacGyveresque to me. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I think it would be very cool for a TV show or movie or even a book to have some astronaut cobble together a makeshift MOOSE and deorbit himself this way. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

I can see where that would be a problem. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[mcs_seattle]

They needed the astronauts with the extra big balls for that first flight...

 

[mcs_seattle]

I didn't see that video, but I remember reports about their respective heart rates at launch and at landing. Crippen heart rate was higher than Young's at launch (rookie's excited, Young has done this before). But at landing, Young's heart rate was higher than Crippens - seemed to indicate that landing like a plane was nothing new for Crippen, but for Young he knew it was dangerous/really new from the capsule days.

 

[strandedonearth]

It would be a whole new meaning for the old (Moosehead) beer commercial motto: "Get to know the MOOSE"<br /><br />I think a personal escape pod is long overdue, it would reduce concerns over having 'lifeboats' available.