Ok, first off I am not saying we can do this now or even in the next 1000 years. Maybe possibly one day. I would just like to know what ideas people would have to do this and how far would you have to move mars to get it to a point where you could have constant liquid water flowing.<br /><br />My idea would be to use millions of carbon nanotube ropes attached to large rods or equal strength material that would be buried into mars at a depth of say 50 miles. The rods would be place every 10 miles around the diameter of mars <br /><br />Once the Rods are in and the ropes are in orbit, you start to drop them down and attach them. Each one has a counter weight to keep it positioned. The counter weights would actually be large Nuke fission/fusion/anti-matter ION Rockets. These rockets will all be connected by Laser so they keep to there exact position at all time<br /><br />The rockets will gradually fire to get up to cruising speed. Now we are not trying to do this in a day. This will take a LONG time. Just looking to get enough force to break the gravitation force holding Mars where it is. Once it’s actually moving the job is half done. You just keep going till you get to the half way point then start the deceleration.<br /><br />The only issue is how you account for planetary rotation and the rockets that are attached to it. Would you have to stop it? Would you have to tow it by the poles?<br /><br />Again just looking for ideas. I don’t think we are ever probably going to try this. Buy the time we have the tech to do it we will have better things to do probably. <br />
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Why? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
Yes, if you are talking about shifting the barycenter of the solar system.<br /><br />You better have a darn good reason to screw with the future planetary orbits. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
sounds a bit drastic <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000">*<font color="#ff6600">t</font><font color="#ffcc00">w</font><font color="#00ff00">i</font><font color="#00ffff">n</font><font color="#00ccff">k</font><font color="#993366">l</font><font color="#0000ff">e </font><font color="#800080">t</font><font color="#ff00ff">w</font><font color="#ff0000">i</font><font color="#ff6600">n</font><font color="#ffcc00">k</font><font color="#00ff00">l</font><font color="#00ffff">e</font><font color="#993366">*</font></font></p> </div>
Well, I can think of a good reason why, but by the time it happens I would venture to say that we may not need to do somethin this drastic.<br /><br />When the sun goes big red 
.<br />
.<br />If I wanted to talk about the science of Orbital Mechanics and the effect that moving mars would have on that then I would have chose a different location than Phenomena. Its here because it’s a wacky post about a wacky idea. Nothing more. So if you are not capable of a discussion of this nature than please feel free to ignore this post all together
Dont worry. Some people have no sense of humour.<br /><br />I would suggest the solution probably includes:<li> Self reproducing machines to create the vast planet-scale machinery required out of materials of the solar system.<li> A mechanism for tapping a significant proportion of the sun's energy for the task, such as converting mercury to collect and beam solar power. Another possible source of energy could be jupiter's orbital energy, or simply vast artificial fusion reactors.<li> Using gravitational attraction to apply force to the planet. For example a swarm of electrically propelled craft that totals to a mass that is not entirely insignificant compared to a planet. This swarm could be programmed to hover off to the trailing side of mars, close enough to apply a slight drag to mars while far enough that its billions of electric engines can resist the slight pull of mars.<li> For a bit more finesse, you should ask what you want to exchange your momentum with. Jupiter was mentioned as a possibility. The swarm of massive craft could cycle between jupiter and mars, using the slingshot effect to lose speed from jupiter and steal speed from mars. This would gradually move mar's orbit inwards. It would also widen Jupiter's orbit very slightly.<br /><br /></li></li></li></li>
<font color="yellow"><br />I would just like to know what ideas people would have to do this and how far would you have to move mars to get it to a point where you could have constant liquid water flowing. <br /><br />My idea would be to use millions of carbon nanotube ropes attached to large rods or equal strength material that would be buried into mars at a depth of say 50 miles. The rods would be place every 10 miles around the diameter of mars </font><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
why mars?? im sure that planet is sick of being exploited and raped by humans and their probes.. if it would not kill all human life I'd like to see mars collide with jupiter then jupiter collide with saturn. but thats just my personal fetish
That would be quite an impressive show. But one has to think about what it would do to the rest of the planetary orbits, solar weather, the Jovian magnetosphere, I could just go on and on about what effects it would have.
Any momentum stolen from Mars would have to end up in that asteroid, soon flinging it too far from mars's orbit to have any more effect. Thats why I proposed using something massive (it could be an asteroid) to exchange momentum between mars and jupiter.
Here's an off the wall idea.<br />How about we produce a large and powerfull electric field ahead of the direction we want Mars moved. Since unlike charges attract, we would be encouraging Mars to move rather than having to use force.
Space is filled with charged particles, both positive and negative.<br /><br />Any strongly charged object in space will attract the oppositely charged particles and neutralize it's charge.<br /><br />You will need a power source to accomplish your idea, and a rather large one at that.<br /><br /><br />{This problem also effects the EU folks theories, fatally, as it turns out}<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
IIRC, just putting one pound of electrons on the sun and another pound on the earth (over and above the current amounts) would neutralize the sun's gravitational pull on the earth and we would go carreening out of the solar system.<br /><br />As you might suspect, the amount of power needed to accomplish this little experiment is beyond staggering, and approaches overwhelming.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
One pound of electrons?<br />Uhm, but hangon a minute, aren't electrons just bundles of energy that are only present with atoms? They are not found in the vacuum! They are not on the atomic charts and are therefor only a "mass effect" aren't they, because they are not real particles... <br />Put it this way, when a battery goes flat, it doesn't weigh any less!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron<br />"its mass is approximately 1/1836 of the proton"<br /><br />Electrons do have mass although much less than protons. They are commonly found outside of atoms for example as static charge on the surface of materials, wandering around in space when atoms have been ionised and in the vaccum inside Television tubes.<br /><br />A battery would weigh a tiny TINY amount less when it is uncharged but this is not because it has lost electrons. Batteries do not gain or lose electrons during charging or decharging. Yes the current does imply electrons flowing out one end, but they also have to flow in the other.
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