My idea for a realistic sci fi (Sky Trek)

[Skyskimmer]

Alright just shooting out an Idea for a realistic sci fi. It'd be an obvious mix of Startrek/galactica/stargate/ and all the others. Wouldn't be that original, and please refrain from posting comments like ( I have no interest in the idea but I think :roll: )

Anyhow here goes, It's be industrial fiction(with the details of the science taking a back seat.) However the goal would be to have realistic tech's nothing to beyond what is expected in the next 30 years, with a strong adherence to the laws of economics and science. No ftl's alien's, duex machina, 50 million torpedoes etc. Also the feeling with be naturalistic (no shinny space clothes or whatever.

The setting would be in our asteroid belt, where space mining has become a multi trillion dollar industry. With over 100k people in the belts harvesting manufacturing/settling their. These mini colonies would be spread around the full belt. And would be a frontier type environment( with a default law system based on the human rights(UN) with almost no true backing.

The plot would be of a 5 year mission :lol: to visit these colonies. Of course it would be a Nasa type of mission(3-400 people on ship). With no clear goal but with many competing mandates enforcing saftey laws(inspections), to explore (find more ore bodies), rescue mission, aid missions, trafficing mission, settling disputes and ultimately a milatary enforcer.

Common techs would be (artificial gravity by rotation on kevlar tethers) Nuclear reactors based on NERVA. Automated robotics, MECH's ( low cost zerog construction units that can be for military purposes. And the list goes on. Genetic engineering etc.


Much of the advancement in the plot would be the differences between colonies. Some would have a culture of racing(through asteroid fields) Dabbling with illegal genetic modification of humans, and the conflict that arises between the people that funded the initial expeditions, and the people that borrowed the money. And the list goes on (basically national geographic goes into space).

The main portion of it would be space based combat. It would be a realistic as can be expected from an unknown tech paradigm. One dog fight would take place over a period of weeks. With a battle taking place maybe over 3-4 episodes. The actual action would take place over short intercepts lasting only a few seconds. The conflict would be very much based on submarine warfare(with the german film Das Boot as the archetype) A great deal of the suspense would be on avoiding detection, (gambling detection versus offense) budgeting fuel, etc. It would be more based on the struggle to survive which is more realistic than say star wars where it's about kill count. A major theme would be unknowns, where as in star trek everything is none relative to a percent, there would be a great deal that isn't known at all times. (Are we being detected, do we really know where they are, what's there striking capacity(would be mostly rogue civilian vessels, are we getting radiation exposure, will we collide with stray debris before we even intercept the enenmy. In short the primary emotion would be anxei\ty and fear, versus aggression.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

...Wouldn't be that original, and please refrain from posting comments like ( I have no interest in the idea but I think :roll: )

Huh? Wait, so you're posting your idea, but you don't want people to comment on it unless they think its great or something?

...Not going to happen. Why post anything in that case?

The plot would be of a 5 year mission :lol: to visit these colonies. Of course it would be a Nasa type of mission(3-400 people on ship). With no clear goal but with many competing mandates enforcing saftey laws(inspections), to explore (find more ore bodies), rescue mission, aid missions, trafficing mission, settling disputes and ultimately a milatary enforcer.

They must have a goal. You can't have a story without a goal. But, luckily for you, your goal is already described above. That is their "quest/goal/desire they pursue/objective/etc.." For instance, the goal/objective in the series Star Trek is clearly stated at the beginning of very episode. That is what links all the episodes together into a "story." "To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.." <que theme>

Each episode draws from that general theme to produce a story. Though it's episodic, they're all governed by that primary goal.

The main portion of it would be space based combat. It would be a realistic as can be expected from an unknown tech paradigm. One dog fight would take place over a period of weeks. With a battle taking place maybe over 3-4 episodes. The actual action would take place over short intercepts lasting only a few seconds. The conflict would be very much based on submarine warfare(with the german film Das Boot as the archetype) A great deal of the suspense would be on avoiding detection, (gambling detection versus offense) budgeting fuel, etc. It would be more based on the struggle to survive which is more realistic than say star wars where it's about kill count. A major theme would be unknowns, where as in star trek everything is none relative to a percent, there would be a great deal that isn't known at all times. (Are we being detected, do we really know where they are, what's there striking capacity(would be mostly rogue civilian vessels, are we getting radiation exposure, will we collide with stray debris before we even intercept the enenmy. In short the primary emotion would be anxei\ty and fear, versus aggression.

One thing you might want to do is read the Honor Harrington series by David Weber. It has excellent descriptions of "realistic science fiction space combat" if such a thing could exist. Another, favorite of mine, would be the "Chanur" series by C.J. Cherryh which has combat/travel that involves a great deal of having to handle relativistic speeds and their importance in detection/communication/etc.. Very, very edge-of-your-seat suspense in many scenes because of that. Cherryh deals effectively with modern known physics like "Light Cones" and uses them as a plot element in combat scenes. GREAT stuff!

There are some problems for avoiding detection in space. If you don't have anything to hide behind, you will be seen if you are moving, assuming that detection technology has kept pace with space-travel development. One occluded star could be picked up by simple scanners. A reflection could be similarly detected. Emissions from drives, navigation radar, etc.. could all be easily detected. So, to get around these things and provide "suspense" one has to invent technologies designed to counteract these problems.

What did they do in Star Trek? <poof> Nebulae! Nebulae screw up sensors and making targeting/detection solutions incredibly complicated, if not impossible. The one failure in what is one of my favorite episodes, Balance of Terror, is that the crew keep very quiet while trying to detect the Romulan... Though, it has to be noted that Spock's accidental activation of a sensor sweep is what gives their position away and not someone dropping a wrench on the deck like a WWII movie. Still, the whole "quiet" thing doesn't make any sense, of course. But, they needed it to produce an atmosphere of trepidation and suspense, otherwise the episode would have lost some of its appeal.

 

[Mee_n_Mac]

So none of these ...

 

[a_lost_packet_]

So none of these ...

Hmm, good point.

I think some exceptions need to be made in even "realistic" Science Fiction.

Literary license and all that...

 

[Skyskimmer]

First off you can say what you want just, don't tell me it's never interest you in a million years. Constructive critics please.


Anyhow as far as their mission, it would change on which part of the season they are in. As Uncertainty would be strong theme. What's right and wrong, why are we here, are do we maintain our funding, having their mission changed half way on a five year journey is something that I think most soldiers/nasa folk/gov workers can relate too.

As far as detection I'd assume that predicting where you opponet will me in 10 seconds will be a major issue, if we can assume there combat takes place in distances of up to several light seconds. How do you shoot a gun? at something which could of moved 1 km in just 1/10 th of a second. Lasers and missles would be may weapons. But unlike in star trek there's a budgets which wouldn't allow for waste his missle or laser fire would have serious costs to be balanced.



As far as green alien girls. Remember this takes place far away from the laws of earth. In a frontier environment, dominated by men(always the case on earth) Genetic engineering would be under prohibition on earth but the belt would have a major black market, wouldn't be a stretch, to have geneng sex slaves being a major source of conflict in the series, as it's a major issue in the real world.

Apocalyspe now and other war movies would be good movies to watch for the direction I'd like to take such a idea in. Where your surivival, your goals, and your mission are never quite sure.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

First off you can say what you want just, don't tell me it's never interest you in a million years. Constructive critics please.

All criticism is constructive if it is valid. But, I'm not negatively criticizing anything in your post.

Anyhow as far as their mission, it would change on which part of the season they are in. As Uncertainty would be strong theme. What's right and wrong, why are we here, are do we maintain our funding, having their mission changed half way on a five year journey is something that I think most soldiers/nasa folk/gov workers can relate too.

Uncertainty is a good theme if it is juxtaposed with.. certainty. In other words, having a General tell a character to torch a village is "certainty" demonstrated forcefully. Obviously, the General has decided the task is vitally necessary, in lieu of the possible outrage it could cause. The "uncertainty" factor might be a character on the scene wondering if the order is justified or being forced to come to grips with their own justification for doing/not doing it. But, eventually, after Uncertainty must always come Resolution. Without Resolution, there's no value in Uncertainty in a story.

*Added in light of Apocalypse Now reference:

1) Apocalypse Now may not have clear cut resolution, but it does - War is hell and the only thing you can be sure of is you're not the same person afterward. Lines are often fuzzy, but they have to be drawn somewhere.

2) Casualties of War may seem to have a resolution, but it doesn't - The time for resolution is long past by the end of the movie. What's left is the hollow revenge of a failed character that did not resolve his inner conflict in time to prevent a heinous act and who kept pushing that resolution farther back in importance until it left him virtually impotent by the end of the movie.

As far as detection I'd assume that predicting where you opponet will me in 10 seconds will be a major issue, if we can assume there combat takes place in distances of up to several light seconds.

True. To make all of this travel possible, especially since they would be visiting a wide variety of interesting spots that are really very, very far apart as far as Solar distances go, they're going to have to be able to travel an a pretty fast clip. Distances between potential combatants will be a key factor in tactics. How far away are they? What's their velocity? What is the capability of delta-v for that vessel? What about ours?

In my mind, the most effective weapons would be missiles with AI warheads capable of adjusting their course and predicting possible evasions by the target.

As far as green alien girls. Remember this takes place far away from the laws of earth. In a frontier environment, dominated by men(always the case on earth) Genetic engineering would be under prohibition on earth but the belt would have a major black market, wouldn't be a stretch, to have geneng sex slaves being a major source of conflict in the series, as it's a major issue in the real world.

Genetics is always a popular subject and abuse of it no less popular. Everyone wants their perfect little Frankensteins to behave, right?

Apocalyspe now and other war movies would be good movies to watch for the direction I'd like to take such a idea in. Where your surivival, your goals, and your mission are never quite sure.

Read "The Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad. Coppola did the exact same thing with The Heart of Darkness in recasting it in Vietnam during the Vietnam War that you are proposing to do with Apocalypse Now. Reusing themes that "work" in different settings is a time-honored tradition in film.

 

[Mee_n_Mac]

As far as detection I'd assume that predicting where you opponet will me in 10 seconds will be a major issue, if we can assume there combat takes place in distances of up to several light seconds. How do you shoot a gun? at something which could of moved 1 km in just 1/10 th of a second. Lasers and missles would be may weapons. But unlike in star trek there's a budgets which wouldn't allow for waste his missle or laser fire would have serious costs to be balanced.

Unless you're real close you wouldn't be using guns or cannons or the like. You'd be using missiles (or torpedoes if you prefer). They are self guided in their terminal phase. Launch them to where you think the target will be and in the last few seconds (or minutes) the missile tries to find it's victim. Of course the missile only has so much fuel to manuver (as does the target) with so there's no guarantees, especially if the victim could detect it's persuer far enough ahead of time (to manuver). Also the victim could use it's "guns" at short ranges to kill the missile. Which in turn leads to mass attacks of missiles to better the probability of a kill (and/or stealthy missiles too). All in all not unlike todays air warfare or sub-surface warfare. And the more realistic SF books follow this line of thinking.

 

[believer_since_1956]

Personally I think adapting David Weber and Steve White novels based on the Starfire games would make a good movie.

 

[Skyskimmer]

As far as detection I'd assume that predicting where you opponet will me in 10 seconds will be a major issue, if we can assume there combat takes place in distances of up to several light seconds. How do you shoot a gun? at something which could of moved 1 km in just 1/10 th of a second. Lasers and missles would be may weapons. But unlike in star trek there's a budgets which wouldn't allow for waste his missle or laser fire would have serious costs to be balanced.

Unless you're real close you wouldn't be using guns or cannons or the like. You'd be using missiles (or torpedoes if you prefer). They are self guided in their terminal phase. Launch them to where you think the target will be and in the last few seconds (or minutes) the missile tries to find it's victim. Of course the missile only has so much fuel to manuver (as does the target) with so there's no guarantees, especially if the victim could detect it's persuer far enough ahead of time (to manuver). Also the victim could use it's "guns" at short ranges to kill the missile. Which in turn leads to mass attacks of missiles to better the probability of a kill (and/or stealthy missiles too). All in all not unlike todays air warfare or sub-surface warfare. And the more realistic SF books follow this line of thinking.

My thoughts exactly. A goverment ship wouldn't automatically be armed to the teeth, it'd may only have 1-20 missles to use over a 5 year span. Add to that your enemy would not be government based. They'd be using mostly improvised weapons. A whole lot of shrapnel, as a common weapon. As even if it were just floating in space, could destroy a whole ship. Or hiding within asteroid fields.

The combat wouldn't be like a two max boxing match like in star trek (hit for hit combat.) It's much more like trying to stab someone on a mountain peak. Your fear isn't so much them as the elements around you.

 

[believer_since_1956]

As far as detection I'd assume that predicting where you opponet will me in 10 seconds will be a major issue, if we can assume there combat takes place in distances of up to several light seconds. How do you shoot a gun? at something which could of moved 1 km in just 1/10 th of a second. Lasers and missles would be may weapons. But unlike in star trek there's a budgets which wouldn't allow for waste his missle or laser fire would have serious costs to be balanced.

Unless you're real close you wouldn't be using guns or cannons or the like. You'd be using missiles (or torpedoes if you prefer). They are self guided in their terminal phase. Launch them to where you think the target will be and in the last few seconds (or minutes) the missile tries to find it's victim. Of course the missile only has so much fuel to manuver (as does the target) with so there's no guarantees, especially if the victim could detect it's persuer far enough ahead of time (to manuver). Also the victim could use it's "guns" at short ranges to kill the missile. Which in turn leads to mass attacks of missiles to better the probability of a kill (and/or stealthy missiles too). All in all not unlike todays air warfare or sub-surface warfare. And the more realistic SF books follow this line of thinking.

My thoughts exactly. A goverment ship wouldn't automatically be armed to the teeth, it'd may only have 1-20 missles to use over a 5 year span. Add to that your enemy would not be government based. They'd be using mostly improvised weapons. A whole lot of shrapnel, as a common weapon. As even if it were just floating in space, could destroy a whole ship. Or hiding within asteroid fields.

The combat wouldn't be like a two max boxing match like in star trek (hit for hit combat.) It's much more like trying to stab someone on a mountain peak. Your fear isn't so much them as the elements around you.

Read H. Beam Piper's "Space Viking" I think you will enjoy it, it is very similar to your idea.

 

[Skyskimmer]

Another idea, I had well not really an Idea, but more of opinion, that less 10 percent of cast would be of western european heritage, as this show would take place in about 100 years, it's highly unlikely that recessive traits like pink skin, blue eyed, or blond hair would be very common with only 10 percent of the global population and high likely hood of mixing to occur in the next century(even among the wealthy). Of course westerner's are the majority in america so it'd be assumed that they'd have to wear make up to look the part. Also choosing people with exotic looks would help to give the show an other world feel without having to be cheesy.

A stylistic view would mimmick alot of what was found in the fifth element. Bright colors, exotic desings etc. Sanskrit would be a defacto naming convention (i.e.) sanksrit names for location and people.

The abhramic faiths(islam/judaism/chrisitanity) wouldn't exist in the way that we know them today, and would be more of a religious blend with no direct reference to a specific denomination.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

.. Also the victim could use it's "guns" at short ranges to kill the missile. Which in turn leads to mass attacks of missiles to better the probability of a kill (and/or stealthy missiles too). All in all not unlike todays air warfare or sub-surface warfare. And the more realistic SF books follow this line of thinking.

You'd probably also have short range mass-drivers, spraying the region of the threat with what's effectively shotgun blasts. "Torpedoes" is a good term since that's how the missiles would operate and they're designed to be used against large ships.

Another point in favor of mass drivers would be laying a minefield of particles in front of the possible trajectory of the enemy ship. Since they're unguided and have no emanations aside, maybe, from some shortly lived heat, targeting them to avoid the navigation hazard would involve active sensing.. and that opens up the encounter for the tactics the torpedoes would use, much like modern ARM missiles use and the same tactics that are used today to take out enemy radar installations with them. Laying proximity mines also has the same effect as long as the mines use passive measures as a trigger mechanism. Though, any unguided weapons would have to rely on escaping detection when released at range.

And, as you say, many realistic SF books follow these lines of thinking in their combat sequences.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

...Also choosing people with exotic looks would help to give the show an other world feel without having to be cheesy.

The point about races and such is a good one, but remember that the audience needs to have a way to connect with the characters. So, while keeping a very good mix of races would be important, you need to emphasize character more than racial differences or racial blending as a story element.

A stylistic view would mimmick alot of what was found in the fifth element. Bright colors, exotic desings etc. Sanskrit would be a defacto naming convention (i.e.) sanksrit names for location and people.

Don't forget the Chinese.. Also, names have a habit of developing from the people who named them.. So, unless you have some sort of Arabic revolution that dominated culture and progress, you might not find a lot of sanskrit names. That's one reason why Latin and Greek are such a common base for many words in many different languages... and those civilizations are a couple of thousand years old.

The abhramic faiths(islam/judaism/chrisitanity) wouldn't exist in the way that we know them today, and would be more of a religious blend with no direct reference to a specific denomination.

Religion may be a touchy subject. After all, Religion is OLD. The Abrahamic faiths are based on beliefs from over two thousand years ago. Hinduism can trace some of its roots to 5000.. BC! These religions are not going to disappear so readily. But, certainly you could blend them in some way or introduce new religions. But, if you're going to include religion as particular point to emphasize, you'll have to visit an explanation or a description of why religions that are two thousand years old are gone/missing/radically changed.

How far into the future does this take place? If it's a few hundred years, you're likely still going to see a lot of basic cultural components that we have today. Language will have slight changes and dialects, religions will have slight changes along with maybe some new ones, etc.. If it's thousands of years in the future, these changes may be more radical or familiar things of today might be entirely non-existent.

 

[bdewoody]

There was a picture book I had a while back that had pictures of space ships we develope over the next hundred years or so with a description of the ships function and operational history. In the book the author described accounts of space battles wherein many fighters were lost due to running out of fuel and disappearing out into the void. All fights were straight line trajectories with fleeting weapons fire as the opponents passed by each other. Babylon 5 did the best job of depicting what a space battle would look like that I have seen. BTW I'm ready to watch it from the start again.

I just don't think SyFy inthusiasts would be entertained enough by watching "realistic" space combat. They have already been conditioned to watching Star Trek, Star Wars and BSG.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

...I just don't think SyFy inthusiasts would be entertained enough by watching "realistic" space combat. They have already been conditioned to watching Star Trek, Star Wars and BSG.

I think that's true, but only because of how we'd predict the directors/writers would handle it. I, for one, don't have a lot of faith in the imagined version of a director/writer trying to bring "reality" to space combat. But, I think it can be done if they realize that it's not the 'splosions and zomgzlazers that need to excite the audience - It's the lead-in and drama behind things we take for granted.

I envision a science fiction movie with "realistic" combat as being a revisiting of some of the old WWII submarine movies or maybe a Cold War version of sub vs sub. Combatants would duck and hide behind screens of debris, remote scramblers and decoys launched on alternative headings, all the while desperately searching for a lock on their enemy. Visual scans would try to detect the slightest hint of reflected light while sifting through the chaff reflections. "Drama" would get played out on radar-screen-like projections as courses were plotted, ranges estimated and fire patterns were set. Light cones would represent sub-relativistic course plots and high velocity weapons. The "kill shot" would almost be anti-climactic.

I'm reminded of several scenes in popular science fiction and my favorite episode of ST:TOS "Balance of Terror" mentioned above. ST: The Wrath of Khan also had that element, though both were close-combat sort of versions of what I'd envision.

Bringing drama without 'splosions isn't as difficult as it seems. Another scene I'm reminded of is the "Radar" scene in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. It's packed with drama and there's not one special effect or explosion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW10xCub3Kg

Brilliantly done.

 

[Skyskimmer]

...Also choosing people with exotic looks would help to give the show an other world feel without having to be cheesy.

The point about races and such is a good one, but remember that the audience needs to have a way to connect with the characters. So, while keeping a very good mix of races would be important, you need to emphasize character more than racial differences or racial blending as a story element.

Don't forget the Chinese.. Also, names have a habit of developing from the people who named them.. So, unless you have some sort of Arabic revolution that dominated culture and progress, you might not find a lot of sanskrit names. That's one reason why Latin and Greek are such a common base for many words in many different languages... and those civilizations are a couple of thousand years old.

Um for the record sanskrit is indian, related to ancient greek and latin. There cousin languages. There were a great deal of european linguist who considered sanskrit the greatest of the indo european language family. It's also in common usage in for naming across asia etc. It's a language that would have alot of neutrality among much of the world. Chinese is impossible to pronounce properly (it's tonal we can't speak tonally so nothing sounds rights), and i doubt a global effort would like to place to much effort on europe. As only a small frantion of the future pop would be ethnic europeans from europe.

The religion thing would be needed for realisms however it wouldn't be a central to any plot development(unlike most sci fi) it would simply be a reference in passing (i.e. my parents were religious or I went to temple) they wouldn't all be reconized as one religion. Instead would be grouped the same way as (catholics and protestants are now) the same thing with slightly different details. I think it's higly likely that this will be the way the big 3 will be treated as awarness of east/west becomes more common.

 

[Skyskimmer]

Just had another thought.This series would take place in about 100 years time. A follow up or spin off would be about 70 years later. At the end of the first series earth has suffered a great famine with a 90 percent killoff due to some disaster rapid cooling/ rapid heating/ asteroid strike and the ongoing on going strife that has follow would cause a large amount of instability in the earth grounding launches from earth.

70 years later from the original 400K+600k that were born in space at the time have grown to a population of about 9 million(with just 2 billion on earth). This second series would be a retro futiristic style, where no supply from earth has left the colonies dependant on outdated and overused tech from the past. Essentially living in a dark age with tech similiar to the early 90's(all limited cpu ability, due to the lack of infastruture to produce such units.) There would be very little robotics most worked would have to be done by hand, with very little schooling needed. It's be the 1950s attitude in the 2180's.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Um for the record sanskrit is indian, related to ancient greek and latin.

Correct, sorry about my error.

But, you'll still have to explain it to the viewer, depending upon your intended audience. For instance, if it was being made in Bollywood, you wouldn't have to explain it. It'd simply be "convention" for the intended audience. But, the Latin based alphabet is still the most common in use.. Where did it go? Why? It'd be difficult to ignore such a change and pass up such a big opportunity to add some sci-fi history/backstory to explain the change.

I think it's higly likely that this will be the way the big 3 will be treated as awarness of east/west becomes more common.

The only problem there is that the Big Three have fundamental differences that aren't really reconcilable. Allen Dean Foster has a pretty good compromise solution in his Commonwealth series/setting. The "Church" (World Church? Universal Church? Can't remember) isn't an amalgamation of religions, but the recognition of the conscious being's Right and need to seek personal enlightenment through religion, among other things. It's sort of a Consciousness Rights group, rather than representing any particular religion or group of religions. Some of its members are even atheists. While Foster can sometimes come off as a hack, he occasionally comes up with some real gems and I like that one a lot. It wouldn't be too hard to translate something in the same spirit to give your story some additional flavor. Not a central theme, to be sure. But, it could foreshadow one if you wanted to use it for that. ie: A religion that acknowledges there's a higher order of existence and it's a conscious being's prerogative to pursue inquiry however they wish, as long as it doesn't infringe upon another's right to do the same, etc..

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Just had another thought.This series would take place in about 100 years time. A follow up or spin off would be about 70 years later. At the end of the first series earth has suffered a great famine with a 90 percent killoff due to some disaster rapid cooling/ rapid heating/ asteroid strike and the ongoing on going strife that has follow would cause a large amount of instability in the earth grounding launches from earth.

Whatever would effect Earth to such an extent would certainly have a wide-reaching effect in every possible way. Technology would take a serious hit. Industrial capacity, communication, etc.. would all be reduced significantly. So, it may be that the colonies off of Earth would have been the least impacted and, as a result, the more advanced technologically than Earth. Necessity breeds invention, as long as you have the capability to invent. Earth wouldn't have such capability for a very long time if 90% of its population was removed.

It would probably need to be sudden, so that various bits of technowizardry introduced later couldn't be seen to have averted the problems, so you still have internal consistency in your story. An asteroid strike might be a good one, but only if we didn't have space-faring capabilities to deal with it. A rampant virus would be good, only if we didn't have some sort of medical miracle tech. Global environmental damage is good and several science fiction authors/films/television shows have dealt with that as well. Though, many use the old WWIII option for a "sudden unavoidable disaster" scenario that was able to bypass their technological knowhow simply because it happened too quickly to second-guess.

Btw, the colonies would probably have their own means to travel, right? What's to stop them from going to Earth and retrieving their own supplies/tech/etc? Gotta put something in there to prevent that thought, like disease, conflict, etc..

70 years later from the original 400K+600k that were born in space at the time have grown to a population of about 9 million(with just 2 billion on earth). This second series would be a retro futiristic style, where no supply from earth has left the colonies dependant on outdated and overused tech from the past. Essentially living in a dark age with tech similiar to the early 90's(all limited cpu ability, due to the lack of infastruture to produce such units.) There would be very little robotics most worked would have to be done by hand, with very little schooling needed. It's be the 1950s attitude in the 2180's.

What about the reverse? With no technological progress being able due to having to spend one's time trying to survive and bury all the bodies, Earth's societies take a severe hit. Now, Earth is a shiny little gem with rich resources, few people and even fewer defenses... The colonies, used to their independence, have designs of their own on the future of Earth... Man's peaceful exploitation has come full-circle - From Earth to the Solar System and back again... But, this time, going back means War.

 

[semiliterate]

Alright just shooting out an Idea for a realistic sci fi. It'd be an obvious mix of Startrek/galactica/stargate/ and all the others. Wouldn't be that original, and please refrain from posting comments like ( I have no interest in the idea but I think :roll: )

Anyhow here goes, It's be industrial fiction(with the details of the science taking a back seat.) However the goal would be to have realistic tech's nothing to beyond what is expected in the next 30 years, with a strong adherence to the laws of economics and science. No ftl's alien's, duex machina, 50 million torpedoes etc. Also the feeling with be naturalistic (no shinny space clothes or whatever.

The setting would be in our asteroid belt, where space mining has become a multi trillion dollar industry. With over 100k people in the belts harvesting manufacturing/settling their. These mini colonies would be spread around the full belt. And would be a frontier type environment( with a default law system based on the human rights(UN) with almost no true backing.

The plot would be of a 5 year mission :lol: to visit these colonies. Of course it would be a Nasa type of mission(3-400 people on ship). With no clear goal but with many competing mandates enforcing saftey laws(inspections), to explore (find more ore bodies), rescue mission, aid missions, trafficing mission, settling disputes and ultimately a milatary enforcer.

Common techs would be (artificial gravity by rotation on kevlar tethers) Nuclear reactors based on NERVA. Automated robotics, MECH's ( low cost zerog construction units that can be for military purposes. And the list goes on. Genetic engineering etc.


Much of the advancement in the plot would be the differences between colonies. Some would have a culture of racing(through asteroid fields) Dabbling with illegal genetic modification of humans, and the conflict that arises between the people that funded the initial expeditions, and the people that borrowed the money. And the list goes on (basically national geographic goes into space).

The main portion of it would be space based combat. It would be a realistic as can be expected from an unknown tech paradigm. One dog fight would take place over a period of weeks. With a battle taking place maybe over 3-4 episodes. The actual action would take place over short intercepts lasting only a few seconds. The conflict would be very much based on submarine warfare(with the german film Das Boot as the archetype) A great deal of the suspense would be on avoiding detection, (gambling detection versus offense) budgeting fuel, etc. It would be more based on the struggle to survive which is more realistic than say star wars where it's about kill count. A major theme would be unknowns, where as in star trek everything is none relative to a percent, there would be a great deal that isn't known at all times. (Are we being detected, do we really know where they are, what's there striking capacity(would be mostly rogue civilian vessels, are we getting radiation exposure, will we collide with stray debris before we even intercept the enenmy. In short the primary emotion would be anxei\ty and fear, versus aggression.

Was going to say that your original plot reminded me of the british series Star Cops. But now that your series is going to take place about 100 years in the future and killing off 90 percent of Earth inhabitants ... seems like you are headed more towards sci-fi then hard science fiction, not that there is anything wrong with it. Just seems like you are changing the entire premise of your story.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

...Was going to say that your original plot reminded me of the british series Star Cops. But now that your series is going to take place about 100 years in the future and killing off 90 percent of Earth inhabitants ... seems like you are headed more towards sci-fi then hard science fiction, not that there is anything wrong with it. Just seems like you are changing the entire premise of your story.

That's a good point.

Often, one can wander away from a theme. If you're going to craft a story with a definite theme, you have to stick with it. Otherwise, it'll end up as a mess. In this case, it's more of the idea of a specific type of setting that pays rigorous attention to believability and deals with the possible "near future." A hundred years is pretty solidly "near future", but some of the believability and hard-science-fiction theme is getting a bit lost.

That wouldn't be good for a story/novel/film/series. But, that's just fine when brainstorming, IMO. In a free-form mode, you can work out interesting plotlines and then come back to your theme and try to see if you can plug them in without tearing the whole thing to shreds.

If you were going to edit this story, what would you suggest in order to try to wrangle the plotlines under control while staying with that hard-science-ficiton/near-future setting?

 

[Skyskimmer]

. But now that your series is going to take place about 100 years in the future and killing off 90 percent of Earth inhabitants ... seems like you are headed more towards sci-fi then hard science fiction, not that there is anything wrong with it. Just seems like you are changing the entire premise of your story.

First off there two stories no change, the first would lead into a disaster on earth most likely caused by people trying to gain independence from earth(maybe 90 percent is too high) Not sure what you mean it will happen at the end of the first series probaly a terrorist attack from space so no tech to avoid it. don't hold me to that one just an idea.

I don't see how that is far fetched assuming we have around 14 billion people in 100 years that's a very fragile population. It's easy to project such a drop. There have been many times in history when this has happened. Not to the same scale but a drop off in pop would seem likely in the next few hundred years. It would still stick to hard sci fi.

 

[Skyskimmer]

Um for the record sanskrit is indian, related to ancient greek and latin.

Correct, sorry about my error.

But, you'll still have to explain it to the viewer, depending upon your intended audience. For instance, if it was being made in Bollywood, you wouldn't have to explain it. It'd simply be "convention" for the intended audience. But, the Latin based alphabet is still the most common in use.. Where did it go? Why? It'd be difficult to ignore such a change and pass up such a big opportunity to add some sci-fi history/backstory to explain the change.

I think it's higly likely that this will be the way the big 3 will be treated as awarness of east/west becomes more common.

The only problem there is that the Big Three have fundamental differences that aren't really reconcilable. Allen Dean Foster has a pretty good compromise solution in his Commonwealth series/setting. The "Church" (World Church? Universal Church? Can't remember) isn't an amalgamation of religions, but the recognition of the conscious being's Right and need to seek personal enlightenment through religion, among other things. It's sort of a Consciousness Rights group, rather than representing any particular religion or group of religions. Some of its members are even atheists. While Foster can sometimes come off as a hack, he occasionally comes up with some real gems and I like that one a lot. It wouldn't be too hard to translate something in the same spirit to give your story some additional flavor. Not a central theme, to be sure. But, it could foreshadow one if you wanted to use it for that. ie: A religion that acknowledges there's a higher order of existence and it's a conscious being's prerogative to pursue inquiry however they wish, as long as it doesn't infringe upon another's right to do the same, etc..

Nothing would be wrote in hindi script it would be for naming convention. Greek isn't written in a latin script nor do we justify using names of greek origin. It would simply be planet sardaya etc, no explanation needed. However most people that aware of indoeuropean language family english/greek/german/russian/french/italia/persian/hindi have some knowledge of sanskrit.

The religions are different fundamentally however that only applies to fundamentalist. Moderate muslims/christians(most likely to leave earth) have very few differences. It's comparable with the differences in catholics and protestants. The main reason for this is to A) allow for use of a large array of muslim styles(veils etc.) and also a secondary goal to show believers in a less political light(i.e. just everyday people that live like the rest of us.) The blurring of the line would help in this.

 

[Skyskimmer]

What about the reverse? With no technological progress being able due to having to spend one's time trying to survive and bury all the bodies, Earth's societies take a severe hit. Now, Earth is a shiny little gem with rich resources, few people and even fewer defenses... The colonies, used to their independence, have designs of their own on the future of Earth... Man's peaceful exploitation has come full-circle - From Earth to the Solar System and back again... But, this time, going back means War.

Earth is generally pretty poor in resources compared to the asteroid belt. your comparing gold dust sprinkled on a foot ball field to a 100 megaton gold rock just floating there. Regardless loss of cheap spaceflight, would cause the colonists to move to the belts, for permanent settlement with no cheap way to return to earth they'd be stranded in the belts.

They'd have to be self sufficient with a shortage of many resources. There would be no factories pumping out lcds( as there far too expensive to produce without a need for them. this would a very pratical technology set that's focused on life support(food/habitats/electricity/clothing) There would be a 3rd world in space feeling. The second series would be much more about trade, survival etc.

 

[semiliterate]

That's a good point.

Often, one can wander away from a theme. If you're going to craft a story with a definite theme, you have to stick with it. Otherwise, it'll end up as a mess. In this case, it's more of the idea of a specific type of setting that pays rigorous attention to believability and deals with the possible "near future." A hundred years is pretty solidly "near future", but some of the believability and hard-science-fiction theme is getting a bit lost.

That wouldn't be good for a story/novel/film/series. But, that's just fine when brainstorming, IMO. In a free-form mode, you can work out interesting plotlines and then come back to your theme and try to see if you can plug them in without tearing the whole thing to shreds.

If you were going to edit this story, what would you suggest in order to try to wrangle the plotlines under control while staying with that hard-science-ficiton/near-future setting?

My bad. Didn't realize he had already jumped to the second story without flashing out the first one. It just seemed to me that he was jumping all over the place without concentrating on any central theme.

Hmmm ... not sure how much suggestion I could give. Not much of a writer ... don't have that dangerous gift of eloquence.

The thing is he had a good premise for a story to start with. The beginning of man's reach into outer space. His idea that asteroid mining is the driving force behind that is believable. He had me thinking of something like a cross between "Star Cops" and "Outland". Where the tension is between the corporations mining the asteroids and the international police force there to keep the peace. There is enough tension there ... man against the elements, man against man, greed, corporate espionage ... for a story.

And if you really need to have space battles ... you could have space pirates. Cliched, I know, but considering the multi-billion cargo transfers of material back to earth, you could expect someone to try to space-jack one.

Plot-lines are important, but more important are the characters ... well to me at least. It is more interesting to find out why someone does something, then for the character to just react to the "plot".

Guess that is my take on things. Will let you guys get back to brain-storming.