New pictures of Kliper

[wvbraun]

I think it looks really cool. It reminds me of the Lockheed Martin OSP design.<br /><br />Link

 

[JonClarke]

Awesome. Looks like the detailed engineering mockup has been finished. <br /><br />Photos 8-18 seem to show the final assembly of the docking module. This is at the rear of the spacecraft.<br /><br />The interior is just a shell (20-23). I assume this will be fitted out later or used to test different configurations. The 5 seats in photo 9 are guess are part of the fit out.<br /><br />Photo 23 offers a glipse of the forward section of a Buran through the hatch. or is is a space shuttle mock up used for ISS engineering work?<br /><br />Can anyone tell me what the captions are in photos 24 & 25? <br /><br />In photo 24 it looks has if there are two different subvariants under consideration, one with stub wings and one without. <br /><br />There seems to be an annulus of soild fuel rockets at the rear of the aft shroud that covers the docking module in photo 25. Is this part of a LES? Agian, can anyone read Russian. This shroud does not form a part of the hardware mockup.<br /><br />Do you know the provenance of the photos? <br /><br />I really, really hope Kliper flies. Must as I love Soyuz, it is overdue for replacement by something like this.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[thinice]

<i>>There seems to be an annulus of soild fuel rockets at the rear of the aft shroud that covers the docking module in photo 25. Is this part of a LES?</i><br />This unit is denoted in photo 24 as "Adapter section with launch escape engines". Photo 25 texts, from left to right: (upper) "Equipment compartment", "Parachute container", "Cockpit module", "Service module", "Docking module", (lower) "Electrochemical generator", "Hull", "Fuel storage and supply unit", "Utility module" (hmm, not sure what does 'bytovoi' mean here).

 

[avmich]

Hi,<br /><br />on the photo 23 you see the Buran model, possibly this one - http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/bbur432.jpg .<br /><br />Captions on the poto 24:<br /><br />top top - the returning module cabin<br />top center - the life module (similar to the one on Soyuz)<br />right - the intermediary module with launch escape engines<br />center - the service module<br />bottom, both left and right - the returning module fuselage<br /><br />So, 'bytovoi' should mean 'life', as this module on the Soyuz serves to be used during orbital flights as the additional room for the crew.<br /><br />The electrochemical generator, shown in the front of the capsule, should mean the current idea is not to use solar panels. <br /><br />The photos were taken on the presentation, which was held by Energia November 30. Some more photos from the event:<br /><br />http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/newspictures/kliper_1.jpg<br />http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/newspictures/kliper_2.jpg<br />http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/newspictures/kliper_3.jpg<br />http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/newspictures/kliper_4.jpg<br />http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/newspictures/kliper_5.jpg<br /><br />You'll probably ask for translation of technical data on the pictures, so here it is:<br /><br />1:<br />launch mass - 13000 kg<br />crew - up to 6 people<br />cabin pressurized volume - 20 m^3<br />cargo mass: spacebound - 500 kg, earthbound

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="orange"><b>Next-generation Russian spaceship unveiled</b><br /><br />Russian space officials on Tuesday unveiled a full-scale high-fidelity mockup of the spacecraft they hope will replace the veteran Soyuz space capsule. Descriptions of the Kliper (for "clipper ship") vehicle have been widely circulated in the space community but today’s presentation in Moscow was the most detailed yet.<br /><br />The Energia Rocket and Space Corporation, the organization that has built all of Russian’s human space vehicles for the past half century, hosted the media event at its headquarters in Korolyov, a Moscow suburb. Deputy General Designer Valeriy Ryumin, himself a former cosmonaut, called the craft "a spaceship of the future" and boasted that "neither the United States nor Europe have anything of the kind."</font><br /><br />MSNBC Article... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[nacnud]

So they are looking for a launch vehicle and a bucket load of cash... hum...<br /><br />Just out of interest I looked up what ariane V could launch to LEO and I got a figure of 17,500kg.<br /><br />The MSNBC article states the mass of klipper as 13 tonnes.<br /><br />So ariane V has enough omph to get klipper into orbit, and maybe enough to get it to the ISS.<br /><br />ESA has already spent more than the ~$1 billion that is needed for the development of klipper on variouse space plane concepts that have never flown namely Hermis and the X38. <br /><br />America shouldn't object to the transfer of rocket technology between Russia and ESA, all that has to be done is to perswade ESA...

 

[crix]

This is great... and simultaneously frustrating. Hurry up CEV.

 

[najab]

><i>Photo 23 offers a glipse of the forward section of a Buran through the hatch. or is is a space shuttle mock up used for ISS engineering work?</i><p>I believe that is a Shuttle mockup. The pictures I have seen of Buran the hatch is half black, half white and the border between the black and white tiles is step-staired, whereas Shuttle has an all white hatch and the line is straight.</p>

 

[nacnud]

So how come in picture 21 of inside the klipper mock-up the shuttle mock up has CCCP in big red letters down the side <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[najab]

Okay, I'll buy that - Buran it is! <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[wvbraun]

Europe should pay for the development of Kliper. From what I hear the russians will need $1-2 billion to do it. It will cost us far more to develop a manned vehicle from scratch. But my feeling is that politics will get in the way, as usual...<br /><br />Or maybe NASA will do the unthinkable and pay the russians to build the Kliper instead of spending 10 times as much on the CEV. NASA could focus on hardware needed for lunar missions (HLV, lunar lander, surface habitats, rover,...) and the russians would build a vehicle which has all the capabilities of the CEV and which would enter service just in time when the Shuttle program is terminated in 2010. But no, that makes too much sense...

 

[backspace]

Except it would take an act of congress to BUY Klipr. Right now the Russians need to stop selling things to Iran first.

 

[rogers_buck]

I wouldn't object to a NASA cash prize for the first Kliper to be succesfully docked to the ISS and returns with these specifications. The same prize, of course, being available to any nation or company that can first claim it. ESA ought to kick in on the prize as well.

 

[JonClarke]

Thanks Avmich and thinice, much appreciated. Looks like I was right about the LES. I assume "electrochemical generator" is another way of saying fuel cell.<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rogers_buck]

Wow, that is clever.

 

[najab]

><i>Just out of interest I looked up what ariane V could launch to LEO and I got a figure of 17,500kg.</i><p>Where did you get that from? I ask because astronautix lists 16,000kg to ISS orbit (51.6 degrees, 400km) for the ECA version. Admittedly, that's not a big difference, but I'm wondering which source is right and which is wrong. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /></p>

 

[nacnud]

A couple of odd places that I don't really trust very much. Old pages form when hermis was still a remote possiblity. I had problems finding acurate figures to LEO not GTO.<br /><br />I'd go with the astronautix figures, although I susspect the difference was that the 17500kg was to ~0 degrees but I can't be sure....

 

[yree]

2004-12-02 13:11 * RUSSIA * US * SPACE * ISS * AGREEMENTS *<br /><br />AMERICA WAS AND REMAINS RUSSIA'S MAIN SPACE PARTNER<br /><br />MOSCOW, (RIA Novosti political commentator Andrei Kislyakov) - NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe invited his Russian counterpart, Anatoly Perminov, to visit Cape Canaveral before Christmas. In an interview with RIA Novosti the head of Roskosmos said, "The Americans want me personally to see that everything possible is being done to resume shuttle flights as soon as possible." He added that America was Russia's principal space partner in manned space flights, specifically the International Space Station (ISS).<br /><br />The United States and Russia were engaged in intense consultations during the second half of the year to resolve the problems from the abrupt slowdown of work on the ISS after the Columbia disaster in February 2003.<br /><br />The Americans' sincerity is unquestioned especially because Mr. Perminov said, "those involved in the previous meetings in Amsterdam and Vancouver slept literally no more than two hours a day trying to revise the ISS program." In other words, the two leading space powers are fully aware of their responsibility for the unique international venture.<br /><br />Sixteen countries are involved in the ISS project including Russia the US, European Space Agency (ESA) countries, Japan, Canada and Brazil. The station began to be assembled in orbit on November 20, 1998. Today, the 183 metricton space station consists of the Russian Zarya multifunctional cargo module, the Zvezda service module, and the Pirs docking compartment, and the American Unity connecting module, the Destiny laboratory and the Quest lock chamber. In its four years in service, 107 people have been to the station.<br /><br />After the Columbia disaster, Russia assumed the full burden of crew rotation and cargo delivery to the station.<br /><br />Naturally, the under funded industry could not simultaneously maintain a manned station and the high stan

 

[avitek]

Re: some Russian terms<br />"bytovoi otsek" = "habitable section" (bytovoi derived from word "byt" = "life conditions", "life mode" etc.)<br /><br />"nesushchii korpus" = "lifting body" (not capsule)

 

[JonClarke]

All good news, thank you!<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[halman]

wvbraun,<br /><br />Thank you for the update! Too bad that the United States is too proud to buy into this project. Looks like this could be the spacecraft of the future! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[avmich]

Agree. Habitable section is also called orbital module (see http://russianspaceweb.com/soyuz.html) . The "vozvraschaemyi apparat" is literally "returning apparatus" or "returning craft".

 

[wvbraun]

"Too bad that the United States is too proud to buy into this project."<br /><br />Well, if NASA can get the CEV off the ground I'm all for it. Having two vehicles with this kind of capabilities is a good thing especially if one has to be grounded for some time (because of a fatal accident or major malfunction).<br />Only if the europeans are dumb enough to pass up this opportunity should NASA think about supporting the russians financially in developing Kliper.

 

[halman]

wvbraun,<br /><br />I find myself torn over loyalty to the American space program, and the knowledge that NASA is several years, perhaps even a decade, away from flying the Crew Exploration Vehicle.<br /><br />Rather than spending time and money trying to build the CEV, I would much rather see NASA building a lunar shuttle, to ferry loads from Low Earth Orbit to the lunar surface. We can buy space on a Kliper to get to LEO. This would be true international co-operation. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[eldensmith]

<i>Rather than spending time and money trying to build the CEV, I would much rather see NASA building a lunar shuttle, to ferry loads from Low Earth Orbit to the lunar surface. We can buy space on a Kliper to get to LEO. This would be true international co-operation. </i><br /><br />Why not just buy a Kliper or two or three? <br /><br />Not rides, vehicles. It can be lifted by Zenit-2; or a bigger Ariane; or a Delta IVH, right? <br /><br />3 Klipers = 60 - 70 flights to LEO. Hire some techs to service the thing here.<br />