Obama aims to ax moon mission

[MiamiBeach]

Space.com,

Please take a look at the Orlando Sentinel article on this issue published today. This should be in your news. The link is:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/spa ... 0904.story

Within the article, it mentions that when the White House releases its budget proposal, there will be no money for the Constellation program. In the meantime, the White House will direct NASA to concentrate on Earth-science projects - principlly, researching and monitoring climate change...

"We certainly dont need to go back to the moon", said one administration official.

So, we can spend TRILLIONS on "stimulus" and social welfare programs, but we cant get an extra 5 billion for NASA??? We cant cut 5 billion from the wasteful Obama budget, but we'll turn NASA into an environmental global warming/climate change propaganda arm?

pittiful! I want my country back!

 

[10_stone_5]

I'm fine with cutting this.
I'm also good with farming out certain current NASA work for competitive bid to private enterprises.

There's already a thread on this in Missions & Launches --->
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22419

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Well, if they're going to ax the latest moon plans, I can't say that I agree with our government doing such. As the OP stated and many have said in many fora before, 'What's a few billion more for NASA when we've got trillion dollar bailouts' for institutions too big to fail?

It's very disappointing and so typical of the government today. Save the greedy Wall Street goons and mega-banks with taxpayer money. But use taxpayer money in an endeavor that will keep America on top of the heap? Nah. That's a waste of funds.

I don't believe though that NASA will be used as a "propaganda machine for GW". It will be used as a science and data gathering machine. And a damned efficient and advanced one at that.

As far as space exloration goes, it's going to be more of the same for the next 30 years that we've had for the last 40 years: Robots. Most of us realized back in the late 80s that manned space exploration just wasn't going to happen on the time line that everyone thought it would back in 1970.

I hope the communist Chinese go full throttle for the Moon. That should be a wake-up call to the United States. But it may still take the Chinese as well 30 or 40 years to establish a presence on the Moon.

 

[dragon04]

Private Enterprise is the future of Manned Space Flight. SpaceX will have guys on the Moon and Mars far sooner and far cheaper than any Bureaucratic entity could.

The US space program was all about having the military "high ground" no matter what people might want to believe.

 

[jimglenn]

Just like the viet nam war took so much money and attention it killed Apollo, the irqi/ranian wars are doing the same.

Not to mention the guy who falls off bikes and the rich people ceos destroyed the economy, and 1 out of 4 people
can't find work. Why the heck is the ISS still up there? Put some wings on it and try a reentry, land and scrap it.

 

[robotical]

Personally I would prefer it if NASA kept its distance from the commercial space companies. It seems like whenever government relies on business that business becomes wedded to government and loses its dynamism. You wind up with companies spreading their operations across the country to keep government patronage and attempting to adhere to an ever growing list of specific requirements.

 

[space_tycoon]

Big deal. Constellation is a deeply flawed program.

But I agree, this should be discussed in the appropriate forum.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Just like the viet nam war took so much money and attention it killed Apollo, the irqi/ranian wars are doing the same.

Good point JimmyG. Wars are expensive. I agree that military spending ultimately takes funds away from space exploration and therefore present and future scientific and technical research. (That is, R&D that is not immediately recognized as having strategic, tactical, and developmental benefit to the military cause.)

In this case, however, at least some of the diversion of funds is necessary and justified, in my opinion.

Look. These guys that want to blow up urban areas in Europe, Asia, and America are bad for business! And bad for business means bad for most everybody. We all need good business!

Even if one is "anti-business", business is usually what creates most jobs. Even for those who are "anti-business"!

 

[MannyPim]

Don't EVEN get me started ......


How about you Frodo ? I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about this...

 

[frodo1008]

Of course Manny I am against our not going back to the moon! I do indeed think this is a very short sided decision by this particular administration.

But unlike yourself, I am not going to rant and rave against president Obama. I am not going to say he is illegitimate, of a damn lier for everything he says either.

I tell you what Manny, I will indeed condemn the current administration for such shortsightedness, why don't you then join me and others that advocate civilian human space development, and are/were then against such useless and vastly more expensive wars such as Iraq?

As some of the more intelligent here have stated, Viet Nahm killed the greatest civilian human space program in history (I KNOW this to be the truth, as I was a part of that very program)!! If we had truly followed and funded the plans of Von Braun and NASA at the time instead of blowing useless holes in the rice paddies of South Eastern Asia, we would now have colonies on the moon, and even bases on Mars!! So now instead, we are blowing holes in the deserts of the Middle East because some idiotic fanatics choose to kill themselves in a supposedly religious cause (while most of the true believers in that very religion consider these more fanatical idiots to be a total disgrace to that very religion) by flying commercial airliners into buildings! Is there really much of a difference here?

The truest irony is that the Viet Nahm war (and now, of course, a united Viet Nahm is now one of our best trading partners in South Eastern Asia!) was the Democrats (LBJ) war, and the latest such exercise is the product of the Republicans (JW Bush)! So just who do we finally vote for, that now has the knowledge, intelligence, and truth to see that the true future of mankind lies in space?

I actually do NOT know Manny, is there a party of we space oriented geeks?

And if you and others wish to condemn the current administration for betraying what I and other more idealistic progressives believe in, in betraying those of the main-street of America middle class and poor working class Americans for the wealth of Wall Street, then Manny, be my guest!! Of, course in taking such a stand you will quite probably also anger many of the more conservative members here on these boards!

I AM very unhappy that the party of such as FDR has now actually to a great extent gone over to the wealthy management side of things, and in doing so has abandoned the working class (that are the real reason there is even any wealth for the wealthy anyway!)!

So now it IS main-street that is "Mad as Hell, and isn't going to Take It Anymore!" Good, but just who does that leave main-street to vote for?

And to even begin to think that these idiots think that the pittance that goes to NASA is somehow responsible is just plain old BS!

Yes, many of us here did not like the methodology that NASA was using to get us back to the moon, but that did NOT mean that we wanted the program abandoned totally! Modified certainly, but abandoned because it could not be afforded?

And I am sorry, (although I fully support such efforts myself) but such as spacex, which has yet to even launch a rocket with the relatively small power of the Delta II, and will have to launch at least a dozen such rockets to even begin to match any reasonable reliability, let alone profitability at any cost! Is not going to come on as a knight in shining Armour and rescue the civilian human space program! At least within even the life time of my own very young grand son!

Sorry about the relatively long rant Manny, but you would ask wouldn't you? :twisted: :twisted:

And who knows, maybe the more moderate and thinking members of Congress will have better sense?

Hopefully.....................

At any rate Manny, while we may very well disagree in other areas, I know you like myself, have always supported a viable Human Space Effort, and I thank you for it!

So, Have A Very Excellent Day!!

 

[MannyPim]

I was hoping you would focus and expound in some detail on your reaction to the cancellation of Moon Mars and Beyond or the Vision for Space Exploration or whatever it is being called these days.

You went off in all kinds of tangents, many of which you and I have covered repeatedly... and resulted in little edification on either side.

But I appreciate your having taken the time to respond... and provide snippets of your reaction to the Moon announcement in between all that other stuff.

 

[frodo1008]

What you wanted from me was a condemnation of just the current administration on an issue that you know very well that I am passionate about! I know that, and you know that Manny, and so I stated just why I take a more general viewpoint even on an issue that I do feel so very highly about!

That was the reason that I provided a more general statement. And even there I have not even began to give up on my hopes of a better program. Congress, and not just the president will have the final say here. And while the budget hawks are railing (where were these budget hawks when they voted in supplemental funds for the Iraq war, all the time!) about the deficits, just perhaps there will be enough right minded moderate conservatives (perhaps for different reasons, but still I think this IS one bipartisan issue) and liberals to stop such an insanity!.

For just one instance, I do hope there will be enough opposition to this stupidity from the aerospace groups to over ride this insanity that seems to have the budget being balanced by the less than 0.4% that NASA spends of the federal budget. In particular, I would expect the same very powerful senators from Utah that have insisted all along that whatever both the Ares I and the Ares V vehicles have as propulsion, at least a high proportion of that propulsion be new even larger SRB's from ATK than ever before, so hopefully they will now certainly stand up and oppose the shut down of not only the entire program, but also the practical shut down of ATK itself in the process!!

Besides which, as I remember it the Augustine Committee, certainly would NOT have seemed to be for just shutting down the ENTIRE moon program itself, but making modifications to it so that it would be less expensive. Just who the Hell IS advising the president here anyway, Mickey Mouse? God, I admit to hate having to say it, but maybe he IS as badly influenced as Manny says he is (or at least as ill advised as the last president was anyway)! For the sake of this truly great country, I do hope not!

I sometimes get a great big kick out of the opponents of NASA that are always saying that it is just a great big jobs program! If that were not the case, then just why the Hell was Obama talking about jobs for Americans anyway?

At the very least these are jobs that:

Do something actually useful in the long run. Or why don't all the opponents just shut off their cell phones, and their GPS systems anyway, as these are the kind of systems that totally depend upon the space technologies originally developed by NASA in the first place. So the kinds of technologies developed by such as NASA now will be just what powers our economy in the future. NASA is NOT an expense of the federal government!! It IS one of the ONLY true INVESTMENTS in the future of not only mankind, but specifically of this country, that the taxpayers can pay so very LITTLE for!!

And besides that, for by far the most part these jobs ARE American jobs, that most generally are not just being shoved off to other countries!

Tell me people here, is that really such a bad thing? Especially in this kind of an economy??

I know that I am going to write to my own Congress Person (a California Democrat within whose district Rocketdyne for one resides!).

I am totally open to anyone with more experience in this area that can tell me just how I can still express my feelings about this without being as long posted as I usually am! This is especially true as I have been told that the best kind of communication to a Congress person is a hand written and delivered letter. Evidently Congress is still living in a distant age, no wonder it is so hard to get them to support technology!

Is that more of a statement that you would want Manny?

Heck, I would be more than happy to take advice on such a letter from you, so please do something useful besides just complaining, and be a help here!!

Perhaps we should come up with a kind of tea party protest type of letter from ALL of we space geeks!!!

How about it people?

If you want I would be more than happy to even start such a protest over on the most appropriate space oriented forum, which forum do you think would be the best? Or has somebody already performed such a service? If so just where would it be?

 

[jimglenn]

Axe Obama bout goin to dat moon ting.

Great to hear from you Frodo. The problem is that some federally funded jobs are hard to justify in the

current environment. Everyone is a target. Those congressmen trying to keep the ATK solid plant running

ARE trying to save jobs, but they are expensive jobs. Each one could pay for 10 lower wage jobs, like burgers.

I remember in the early 1970's, so many aerospace eng were being laid off, they said they were working pushing
hot dog carts! That is probably a good job today.

Zen: nasa can help with defense. If they pay me I will show them how to make the ISS into a battlestar.

 

[brandbll]

If Obama is going to cut the moon program what the hell was the point of the Ares-1x? Was that just for fun or what? If they just launched that thing for ****s and giggles, then i want my money back....

BTW, i'm writing my congress members tommorow and i suggest everyone else here do the same. This is BS, canceling the Moon program. Like Frodo stated, private industry is not the answer. We should have made this an international effort instead of being so arrogant about it. Who the hell names a space exploration rocket after the greek god of war? So what if others countries get less. This isn't about countries, this is about humanity as a whole. I don't know where people come up with all this private industry grabage either. Are the companies who produce our rockets government owned companies? Is Lockheed Martin a government owned organization? Is Alliant Tech Systems, the developer for the Ares I, a government owned organization? NO! You can buy their stock on the NYSE. So please people, stop this BS about private space industry. The private space industry already exists. The "private space industry" that is so bragged about just stands for spreading out resources and not getting anything done slowly. Oh, soon Virgin Galactic is gonna be sending people up to LEO with a reusable vehicle? Great! We've been doing that for 3 freaking decades! Congratulations on reinventing the wheel! Space Tourism? You want space science and exploration to excel off of tourism? You want tourism to be the deciding factor of our evolution? I wonder if deep sea exploration is going to choose the same great method? "Yeah lets' not bother studying the earth, lets just wait for people to pay to do our jobs for us." :roll:

 

[jimglenn]

Space X is working on the 9 engine Falcon 9, and OSC will use old Russian moon rocket engines to

fly cargo to the ISS, and maybe crews. Nasa is going to use commercial services.

News from GRC in cleveland:

http://www.cleveland.com/science/index. ... ignme.html

Glenn officials had pushed NASA hard for a role in Constellation, hoping to stem a steady loss of personnel, money and relevance within the space agency.

Their efforts paid off in 2006 and 2007 with announcements that Glenn engineers would supervise the design and testing of key elements of Constellation, including components of the Ares I crew rocket, Ares V cargo rocket, Orion crew capsule and Altair lunar lander.

The assignments have revitalized the center's workforce. Glenn's Plum Brook Station in Sandusky, which houses huge vacuum chambers and other testing facilities, is undergoing millions of dollars in renovations and upgrades to prepare for testing of Constellation spacecraft.

All that work is in jeopardy with Obama's plan to halt Constellation and rely on commercially built rockets to ferry astronauts to and from the International Space Station. :x


An Obama administration official also told The Plain Dealer that Glenn will not suffer in spite of the cancellation of Constellation, although he would not discuss specifics.

"The Cleveland area will benefit greatly from NASA's new approach," said the official, who requested anonymity because he was speaking prior to the president's budget release. "The Glenn Research Center is uniquely suited to take advantage of many of NASA's new programs."

 

[frodo1008]

Brandbll is absolutely correct when he states that very nearly ALL US space work from the very beginning of the Space Age has NOT been actually done by any direct governmental agency. No, not even NASA itself! In fact, almost ALL US Governmental large projects in the history of this country have been actually worked on by pure private industry!

For instance, the great Transcontinental Railroad funded by the government was totally built by two private companies, the Union Pacific Railroad, and the Central Pacific (eventually to become the great Southern Pacific Railroad) Railroad.

Boulder dam was not built by the government directly, it was built by a consortium (kind of like Boeing and LM with ULA) of six of the largest private construction companies in the US.

I think it is quite possible that at least 99% of all the military equipment ever used by the US Military (and just think of how much money that has cost since the beginning of this country!) was totally built by private companies whose private investment stock can be bought by anybody that has the money to buy it! And NASA has almost religiously followed the same pattern.

Whenever anybody talks about pure private companies there is one all important word that can not be left out: that word is PROFIT(S)!! And there are very little profits to be made, if any, in fully finding pure scientific exploration efforts, as has been the case in mankind's exploration efforts for thousands of years!

So, if we do not have a governmental organization that does this very essential effort, then nobody is going to do it! And THIS is just what NASA was founded to do in both its excellent purely scientific robotic efforts, and its Human Space Program, they do NOT compete with each other, they ARE complimentary, and one would not exist without the other!

So, by its very charter and nature NASA should be going out beyond Earth orbits. And perhaps it is now time to see the pure profit motif actually come behind and be used to bring down the cost of transport to LEO.

Now, as people such as myself that have actually worked in the industry and on the hardware used in these efforts realizes, this is NOT going to take place anywhere nearly as quickly as even NASA originally did it. At that time in the 1960's we had the very high spur of our competition with the USSR at that time, and NASA had the kind of budget it should have had all along! I do not think that you would find anybody on these boards that does not realize that we did truly incredible things then!

Is there anybody here that even begins to think that we in the US are somehow going to "bust the budget", and raise the National Debt if we were to devote some half of what we devoted then, to NASA now. That would be 1.0% of the federal budget on average, instead of the 2.0 % we spent on average during the great 1960's!! Especially, as those efforts resulted in technologies that have enable the greatest single leap in technology (and its incredible profit potential) that mankind has EVER experienced?

And then the Return on Investment to the American taxpayers of this time, by the money so invested in NASA at that time, has been a minimum of 10X, and could very easily be as much as 30X's!! I know the people here are not so stupid by any means, and I do not at least want to believe the American people are so stupid or short sighted as not to see this either!!

With that kind of funding NASA could not only sponsor the excellent efforts of (let us call it alt.space, rather than private space) such as spacex, Scaled Composites and Virgin Galactic , Bigelow Aerospace, and all the rest of the alt.space crowd in eventually giving both NASA and the rest of us an actual Cheap Access To Space (CATS) system, while at the same time NASA itself leads the nation (and possibly the world) in going back to the moon to use the almost unlimited resources of that relatively close by object to eventually go on outwards to Mars, and even beyond!!

IS THAT too difficult to understand here and elsewhere?

Or, must mankind eventually learn the lesson of the dinosaurs???? :x :x :x

 

[dragon04]

.

 

[dragon04]

Frodo. It's obvious and understandable why you would be biased towards a Government-based Space Program. You made a living off of it for years.

That said, a transition to private enterprise will yield similar results and benefits to taxpayer-funded NASA. The biggest difference will be that the Government won't be spending people's money. Private enterprise will hire workers, do research, create investment opportunities, etc.

I saw an argument you made that outfits such as SpaceX don't yet have a track record let alone a reliable launch vehicle. And Frodo, what did NASA have in 1961? A bomb with a man on top. My point is that we didn't hold it against NASA that it was a fledgling space agency. We understood that the road to putting men into LEO or on the Moon was risky business and there was a lot of trial and error.

Let NASA do what it does most cost-effectively. Robotic probes doing awesome long term science. Not spending 100 Billion (Taxpayer) Dollars to put boots on the Moon or Mars. We could be actively exploring the outer solar system with multiple probes right now were it not for the expense incurred in developing a manned system that's over budget already and behind outfits like SpaceX.

BEHIND, Frodo, and lots of bugs to work out or in the worst case, a dump/restart of that they've already spent Billion$ on. You act as if Americans aren't going to benefit from private enterprise based manned spaceflight. Not only will we benefit, but we'll see end products at the Consumer level much faster because profit (yes, I dropped the P Bomb) will trump Military Advantage and Top Secrecy. Technologies won't be withheld from the Public in the "interests of National Security".

Ironcally, this is one of the few things the Obama Administration is getting right. Constellation is a glowing neon sign advertising the dogged adherence to old ways and the unwillingness to move away from and allow the private sector to drive progress.

 

[bearack]

One of my predictions of the Obama administration was to slash the NASA budget. I know many of you are looking for the private industry to pick up where NASA would be leaving off, but my feeling is that NASA is the driving force for many of these innovations which are then passed down to the private arena.

I honestly think the eliminating all Moon missions is a horrid idea. A Moon base by NASA and other ESA and Russians would have promoted even more private expansion into space. We still must wait for that first, important discovery by NASA or ESA to revitalize the private industry to committ to spending space dollars. Right now, the only interest the private industry has is commercial, low orbit flights for the rich.

Just my two ¢'s!

 

[frodo1008]

Gee dragon04, I am sorry I took actual pay for helping to place men on the moon the first time, please forgive me for not waiting another 50 years or so for pure private capitalistic industry to do the same (if they ever would)! At the least it caused me to not only get a higher education in the sciences (including space science), but gave me the practical knowledge to even be able to talk about these subjects intelligently, unlike some others here!!

By the way, without normal Americans thinking that their children might just be able to become astronauts (check out almost any fifth grade classroom in the US, becoming an astronaut is STILL one of the major ambitions of a whole lot of American children, even with the far less idealistic "Me" generation), there would be almost NO interest in the American public in the robotic side of exploration by NASA! As I stated, there would be no such pure exploration without the interest gained from the Human Space program side of NASA.

And you CAN'T be so naive as to think that pure private for profit industry is going to even think of funding such exploration probes! So, with NASA, and without the Human Space Program of NASA, there IS going to be NO space program (at least from the US anyway), there just isn't! Can't you even begin to understand that?

And just where did you even begin to think that I was somehow against the excellent efforts of such as Elon Musk and the other alt.space people? Heck, I am for ANY efforts to get us into space, and the pittance that NASA gets is not in any way going to stop such efforts anyway. By the way just who do you think is the biggest monetary supporter of spacex anyway? Yep, you guessed it (at least I hope you know enough about what is really happening here to guess that correctly), the US government through the COTS program of NASA. And without the taxpayer funded Human Space Program of NASA that put the ISS up into LEO in the first place, there would now be absolutely no such program, as there would not be any such a place for the Dragon Capsules to even go to!!

Now the program of Burt Rutan (and by the way I would never oppose either spacex or Scaled Composites, as I live in Southern California where both are located!), is relatively (his company also has governmental contracts, or did you not know that either?) free to be a pure capitalistic enterprise. However, he is at least some three years away from fully establishing the routine flights to even sub orbital space that he first must apply, before he can even think about the funding to get to LEO with people.

I have even known those on these boards that do not seem to realize the enormous difference between sub orbital flights and orbital missions.

Sub orbital flights are far shorter in duration, as the fastest time for even one orbit is about 90 minutes, and that is at least some 10x even the longest time for a sub orbital flight. And just what millionaire wants to pay for only one orbit? So, we are talking about a whole new ball game as far as life support requirements are concerned!

Then there is the need for a very good Thermal Protection System (TPS) system for orbital flight, that does not exist for a sub orbital flight. After all the heating built up in decelerating from some 17,500 mph (minimum for orbital flight) and the 3,000 mph generally needed for a sub orbital flight, is not hardly even comparable! Some 300 to 500 degrees Fahrenheit for sub orbital, to some 3,000 to 3,500 degrees for orbital.

Of course, the energy levels for even getting up to that 17,500 mph, instead of that 3,000 mph, are also almost not comparable either!

Am I making myself clear here?

So, even if the sub orbital flights for space tourism prove to be both practical and reliable, the jump to orbital flights could very well take at least another 5 years or more, and very well might just take an entire decade or more. Facts that I am certain that Burt Rutan is well aware of, but can he then spook potential investors with such facts?

The total amount of taxpayers dollars to support NASA is so small as to be almost none existent. In fact, somebody here once calculated that the average taxpayer could almost afford to buy a single candy bar at today's prices and pay about the same as they had to spend on NASA each month! And, just for your information, the pure scientific programs of NASA HAVE been taking a larger bite of NASA's funding. Or don't you and some others here even bother to try to see the actual breakup of NASA funding?

Sorry Dragon04, it might not seem like it, but I am trying very hard not to be too sarcastic here. What sarcasm I have, has even been learned to a great extent from the more conservative members here on the political forum. I did not start out that way!

I am now, was from the age of about 10, and probably will be until I depart this existence, an incurable idealist! What I sometimes think of as a left over 1960's idealistic technological hippy! Further more, I have absolutely no regrets about being that at all!!

But life has taught me to pepper my idealistic enthusiasm with a certain degree of realism. And I have learned to use facts, and not opinion to argue my points here. If that bothers some, then so be it also!! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[frodo1008]

Bearack, I know that we do not always agree here. But I must admit the more of your excellent posts that I see, the better I like you and your opinions!!

And your latest here certainly supports that view!

A truly fine post, and I do thank you for it!

Have A Truly Excellent Day!!

 

[brandbll]

One of my predictions of the Obama administration was to slash the NASA budget. I know many of you are looking for the private industry to pick up where NASA would be leaving off, but my feeling is that NASA is the driving force for many of these innovations which are then passed down to the private arena.

I honestly think the eliminating all Moon missions is a horrid idea. A Moon base by NASA and other ESA and Russians would have promoted even more private expansion into space. We still must wait for that first, important discovery by NASA or ESA to revitalize the private industry to committ to spending space dollars. Right now, the only interest the private industry has is commercial, low orbit flights for the rich.

Just my two ¢'s!

And that is exactly it. Everybody for anti-NASA manned spaceflight wants to rely on a few rich people to dole out hundreds of thousands of dollars just to simply go to space. How many of those people are going to turn into repeat customers? It doesn't make any sense when in order to simply double NASA's budget, we all have to fork out a mere $45 PER YEAR. That's 12 cents per day to the people who are keeping track. In some states if you simply recycle two aluminum cans you can make that much. The fact that some people would rather pay for cable TV for a month than double our space exploration for an entire year is pathetic. It'd be deducted from your pay check at a cut of less than TWO dollars every two weeks. My late fee for a library book was that much. America can't afford that?! I highly doubt 99% of Americans would notice or care about a mere two bucks being chopped from their pay check in the name of the greater good of humanity.

We could be actively exploring the outer solar system with multiple probes right now were it not for the expense incurred in developing a manned system that's over budget already and behind outfits like SpaceX.

BEHIND, Frodo, and lots of bugs to work out or in the worst case, a dump/restart of that they've already spent Billion$ on. You act as if Americans aren't going to benefit from private enterprise based manned spaceflight. Not only will we benefit, but we'll see end products at the Consumer level much faster because profit (yes, I dropped the P Bomb) will trump Military Advantage and Top Secrecy. Technologies won't be withheld from the Public in the "interests of National Security".

Do you know why we're behind? Because unlike SpaceX, NASA currently is flying missions to space with a reusable vehicle i.e. the Space Shuttle. Not only that, but we have people in LEO right now, unlike anyone in the private industry. You are right about one thing. Technologies won't be withheld from the public in the name of national security. With the private companies they'll be withheld in the names of copyrights and profits.

And let's take a look at something:

On Wednesday, a senior White House official told two Florida newspapers (Florida Today and the Orlando Sentinel) that the administration would ask for an additional $6 billion over the next five years to help private companies develop this capability.

http://www.space.com/news/obama-nasa-sp ... 00128.html

Who's paying for this vaunted "private space industry"? Private parties? No, WE ARE!!!! The taxpayers are paying to start this "private space industry." They haven't done jack squat and they already need us to start cutting them BILLIONS in stimulus money! Time to wake up people, space exploration just got tossed in the garbage can and this "private industry" crap from Obama is just a means of covering it up and giving people false hope.

 

[jimglenn]

Obama aims to shoot the moon

Let the paypal and google and rich ceo's pay for a trip. Better to send rich people into deep space

than monkeys. :lol:

 

[docm]

Just posted to SB&T that NASA has put out a solicitation for VASIMR, including a look at a space tug powered by it. Check it there.

 

[nimbus]

Who's paying for this vaunted "private space industry"? Private parties? No, WE ARE!!!! The taxpayers are paying to start this "private space industry." They haven't done jack squat and they already need us to start cutting them BILLIONS in stimulus money! Time to wake up people, space exploration just got tossed in the garbage can and this "private industry" crap from Obama is just a means of covering it up and giving people false hope.

Who cares about Obama. Musk, Bigelow & co don't care what his motives are. They just want a crack at the problem. Better them than govt.

Gee dragon04, I am sorry I took actual pay for helping to place men on the moon the first time, please forgive me for not waiting another 50 years or so for pure private capitalistic industry to do the same (if they ever would)!

So beside the point that people probably sooner skip the rest of your litany than expect you to just give a concise counter argument somewhere in those fifteen paragraphs.