Obama's "New" Space Policy

[rockett]

Today the White House appeared to unleash a new media push to enlist support for the Obama Space Policy. This was broken up into a series of articles posted on Space.com. This comes after two articles posted the previous week to "explain" the Obama Policy and "clarify" it (or justify it, depending on your viewpoint), but they seem to be more rhetoric than substance. There also seems to be a disturbing trend away from unbiased analysis and reporting going on with the Space.com articles, but not the SpacePolitics.com article.

Articles are listed below including one from SpacePolitics.com:

The new national space policy is out
June 28, 2010 at 3:09 pm · Filed under White House
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/06/28/the-new-national-space-policy-is-out/

White House Unveils New National Space Policy
By Tariq Malik SPACE.com Managing Editor
http://www.space.com/news/white-house-unveils-national-space-policy-100628.html

Not anything really "new" presented here, only a rehash of everything we have been discussing on the forums...

China Has Not Been Invited to Join International Space Station, NASA Says
By Tariq Malik SPACE.com Managing Editor
http://www.space.com/news/nasa-china-not-invited-space-station-100628.html

Article about NASA denying any invite for China to join the ISS...

New U.S. Space Policy to Emphasize Cooperation
By Amy Klamper Space News Staff Writer
http://www.space.com/news/national-space-policy-cooperation-100627.html

Oddly, this article precedes the NO CHINA article and is trumpeting the "new" emphasis on international cooperation. So, it seems a little contradictory...

NASA, White House Launch Digital Comment Box for Space Plan
By SPACE.com Staff
http://www.space.com/news/nasa-space-plan-website-comments-100628.html

When I went to the NASA website this article refers to, the focus seemed to be on renovating Florida's space coast, not for commenting on the Obama Plan, unless I missed something...

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From last Thursday June 24, there were these articles:

Misconceptions Swirl Around Obama Space Plan
By Clara Moskowitz SPACE.com Senior Writer
http://www.space.com/news/nasa-obama-space-plan-misunderstandings-100624.html

NASA's New Direction: FAQ
By Clara Moskowitz SPACE.com Senior Writer
http://www.space.com/news/nasa-obama-new-direction-faq-100624.html

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It seemed worthwhile to comment on this development, and discuss the articles in question.
The reaction of at least some media sources seems to be "ho-hum" so far...

 

[EarthlingX]

Original, short and sweet :
http://www.spaceref.com: Fact Sheet: The National Space Policy

or PDF (18 pages) :

http://www.whitehouse.gov : NATIONAL SPACE POLICY of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA

 

[EarthlingX]

A couple of different sources, for a little less one sided view :

nasawatch.com : Space Policy Reaction - NASA Watch

 

[EarthlingX]

www.spacemart.com : Grappling With Space Jobs

by Launchspace Staff
for Launchspace
Bethesda MD (SPX) Jun 29, 2010
Senator Jeff Sessions, last week , said Senators whose states will lose private sector jobs related to new NASA's space plans would like an independent legal opinion on whether or not NASA can order the winding down of the Constellation program. Senator Sessions and others seem to think "this is clearly a violation of the congressional intent."

If they had intent, why did they not finance it ? Not that it would help ..


www.space-travel.com : Obama lays out new US space policy

by Staff Writers
Washington (AFP) June 28, 2010
President Barack Obama on Monday laid out an overarching new US policy on outer space, calling for more international and private sector cooperation on exploration, climate change and orbiting debris.

The release of the new policy did not contain new, specific announcements, but served as a blueprint for government departments and foreign governments on US goals and philosophy on space exploration and exploitation.

www.space-travel.com: NASA Plays Key Exploration Role In New Administration Space Policy

by Staff Writers
Washington DC (SPX) Jun 29, 2010
NASA Administrator Charles Bolden issued the following statement regarding President Obama's new National Space Policy:

"NASA is pleased to be an integral part of President Obama's National Space Policy. NASA's new direction, announced as part of the fiscal year 2011 budget, is embodied in the new National Space Policy. I would like to thank Lori Garver, my deputy, who led this policy review for NASA, and Phil Mcalister, the NASA representative, who led our working group effort.

"NASA has a key role in achieving the goals defined in the new policy. We are committed to working with other agencies, industry, and international partners to achieve national goals in exploration - human and robotic - and technology development that will ensure a robust future for the U.S. and our friends around the world.

 

[orionrider]

The fact that Obama is emphasizing international cooperation says many things to me:

1. the goal of manned missions outside Earth orbit is now very plausible;
2. international missions are contractual and cannot easily be canceled, preventing political meddling and corruption;
3. using large Russian rockets (Energia, Vulkan?) immediately solves the 'new heavy launcher' polemics;
4. US investments in international ventures will force Europe to increase her pitiful commitment ($5B);
5. with $18B, NASA will be the catalyst of space exploration, providing the boldness Europe lacks and the resources Russia needs;
6. China will never be able to match the international space projects;
7. international markets will open, for the benefit of US commercial space companies;
8. international resentment and distrust against the USA will ease, leading to better political and economical relations.

No nation, however powerful it is, can do this alone. Space is for all to conquer, not just America or Costa-Rica

 

[rockett]

The fact that Obama is emphasizing international cooperation says many things to me:

1. the goal of manned missions outside Earth orbit is now very plausible;
2. international missions are contractual and cannot easily be canceled, preventing political meddling and corruption;
3. using large Russian rockets (Energia, Vulkan?) immediately solves the 'new heavy launcher' polemics;
4. US investments in international ventures will force Europe to increase her pitiful commitment ($5B);
5. with $18B, NASA will be the catalyst of space exploration, providing the boldness Europe lacks and the resources Russia needs;
6. China will never be able to match the international space projects;
7. international markets will open, for the benefit of US commercial space companies;
8. international resentment and distrust against the USA will ease, leading to better political and economical relations.

No nation, however powerful it is, can do this alone. Space is for all to conquer, not just America or Costa-Rica

Then why are be not including China? It would seem if this were truely a worldwide effort, we would want them to join...

 

[EarthlingX]

Then why are be not including China? It would seem if this were truely a worldwide effort, we would want them to join...

They are not excluded.

www.nytimes.com : Obama Reverses Bush’s Space Policy

By WILLIAM J. BROAD and KENNETH CHANG
Published: June 28, 2010

The Obama administration on Monday unveiled a space policy that renounces the unilateral stance of the Bush administration and instead emphasizes international cooperation, including the possibility of an arms control treaty that would limit the development of space weapons.

 

[rockett]

NASA spokesperson John Yembrick said that while NASA is always seeking new partnerships, the agency and its space station partners have not invited China to join the $100 billion space station program.

"There's ongoing dialogue about it and I think NASA is open to further partnerships in the International Space Station," Yembrick told SPACE.com. "But as of now there have been no formal invitations."

The country is also developing plans for a Chinese space station, the first module of which is called Tiangong 1 and is slated to launch in 2011.

Some space agency leaders have mentioned the potential for cooperating with China on future space ventures.

European Space Agency director general Jean-Jacques Dordain reportedly said May 31 that he would be ready to embrace cooperation with China if the other space station partners also agreed.

http://www.space.com/news/nasa-china-not-invited-space-station-100628.html

Soooooo why no formal invitation?

 

[EarthlingX]

Perhaps it is a bit early ? China is also not exactly the main space power, and Obama and Medvedev had talks about expending cooperation in aerospace sector, during Medvedevs visit to LA. There was also a big international conference lately, and there has been talks about advancing cooperation in various fields.

Possibility is a matter of negotiations, but now they at least talk about it.

http://www.newsdaily.com : Obama plan boosts foreign, private space projects

Posted 2010/06/28 at 6:14 pm EDT
By Irene Klotz


CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida, June 28, 2010 (Reuters) — The Obama administration on Monday outlined a space policy that offers an expanded role for foreign governments including possibly China and private companies in monitoring Earth's climate, tracking and removing orbital debris and protecting satellites.

 

[Couerl]

Cuz they're commies? :lol:

 

[EarthlingX]

Cuz they're commies? :lol:

They are less 'commies' than Cx defenders

Besides, USA owes China a lot of money, and has a trade minus with them. They seem more 'capitalistic' than anything else.

 

[Valcan]

Cuz they're commies? :lol:

They are less 'commies' than Cx defenders

Besides, USA owes China a lot of money, and has a trade minus with them. They seem more 'capitalistic' than anything else.

Communist is just a polite fiction for what they really are. Which is what most governments down the centuries have tended to be and what most are now no matter the name, Kleptocracies.

Ever look at where the money is? Its in the Hands of about 100 chinese families. So basicaly like russia after the revolution china is now a kleptocracy which uses communism to keep those inline. Its outlook and economic model is state owned capitalism though. China prospers threw cheap labour and not having to deal with things like rights, laws etc.

 

[orionrider]

Cuz they're commies?

Commies wouldn't sell 99% of your children's toys :?
I think at the moment the Chinese cannot contribute much. Besides, they are just not interested. Their program is treated like a state secret and fed to the domestic press as 100% pure, military grade, highly enriched national pride.

Not exactly the partnership Obama wants

 

[rockett]

This is a good analysis of international partnerships...

The current "China Question," seen in this light, has a workable solution. If new partners are needed for the space station, invitations to several Asian spacefaring nations may indeed be feasible. South Korea is a promising candidate, and if Beijing is interested (and if they ever do figure out how to perform orbital rendezvous), they can be offered membership along with Taiwan. The only stumbling block to that solution is if Beijing thinks earthside politics is more important than outer-space development. The choice is theirs.

The right and wrong stuff for space cooperation
Space station serves as model for future policy, but for unexpected reasons
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37986760/ns/technology_and_science-space/

 

[rockett]

Commies wouldn't sell 99% of your children's toys :?

Then again selling toys could be a communist plot :

As More Toys Are Recalled, Trail Ends in China
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/business/worldbusiness/19toys.html

Recall of China-made toys unnerves parents
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2007-08-02-toy-fright_N.htm

List of Problem Chinese Imports Grows
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1165627

 

[orionrider]

"GM recalling 1.5M vehicles over fire concerns"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gm_recall


The Chinese are well known for their poor work conditions, nonexistent quality control and safety norms. Yet everybody wants their cheap toys.
In Europe the press campaign against 'dangerous' Chinese goods has been viewed as US propaganda to counter the massive imports that are choking the economy.

But back to the OP:

China's space program is entirely boots and flags, with very little scientific front-end. It's very nature is antagonistic, to impose on the world and to impress the locals. They see space as a military playground. Their recent shooting of a satellite was not only a nuisance but also a declaration of their new position on the planet. Also a clear warning to Taiwan's space ambitions.
At the rate they educate their youth, it could well be that in another 20 years the Chinese academical community takes over from the military. If that happens, they will not only cooperate, but request the lead.

 

[rockett]

China's space program is entirely boots and flags, with very little scientific front-end. It's very nature is antagonistic, to impose on the world and to impress the locals. They see space as a military playground. Their recent shooting of a satellite was not only a nuisance but also a declaration of their new position on the planet. Also a clear warning to Taiwan's space ambitions.
At the rate they educate their youth, it could well be that in another 20 years the Chinese academical community takes over from the military. If that happens, they will not only cooperate, but request the lead.

Considering how much is owed them world-wide, they really don't have to request anything. They can just buy it...

 

[sftommy]

Among the media; CNN online doesn't carry NASA anything unless there's a blowup. TECH to them means the latest consumer gadget.

As a superpower, this space policy reflects the US decline relative to the rest of the world.

Chinese trade policy is designed to erode the US economic power base and enrich their own, much as every power seeks to do. The US has assented to the point where US labor is becoming oxymoronic and technologies are exported to even our enemies so freely that the techno investment this policy promises runs the real risk of being exploited elsewhere more cheaply than we can here. Such is the case with the last decade of commericial space launches.

We may be ahead of the game in that NASA ensures a level of quality control that is not demanded elsewhere.

 

[rockett]

We may be ahead of the game in that NASA ensures a level of quality control that is not demanded elsewhere.

Not really. The way things are going with the new commercial push, we will be buying rockets from China next...

 

[Valcan]

We may be ahead of the game in that NASA ensures a level of quality control that is not demanded elsewhere.

Not really. The way things are going with the new commercial push, we will be buying rockets from China next...

I'm sorry i don't quite get that comment.....Lets who wants to count the launch systems and spacecraft we a schedualed for soon...

 

[rockett]

We may be ahead of the game in that NASA ensures a level of quality control that is not demanded elsewhere.

Not really. The way things are going with the new commercial push, we will be buying rockets from China next...

I'm sorry i don't quite get that comment.....Lets who wants to count the launch systems and spacecraft we a schedualed for soon...

If you will look a few posts back, there was some discussion about China's possible involvement in future space endeavors. There was also some discussion about China's recalls among other things. Hence the comment about being ahead in quality control. A logical extension of going commercial would be to buy from China because it's cheaper instead of building our own rockets.

 

[EarthlingX]

They are buying from Russians, so what's the point ? Btw, ESA is buying from Russians too, i think it's 17 Soyuzes that are going to fly from Kourou, and delivery is already on the way.
Russians said they can make more, and i have no doubt about that, plus it will be most likely much better quality than Chinese, and they are cheap. I think it was 12 Suyuzes for a 1 G$ or somewhere close.
Russians have problems with Chinese 'approach' to intellectual rights too, so i guess it might be a bit easier to persuade Chinese to stick to the generally accepted rules. Don't hold your breath, though.

Anyway, this new policy is not about China, they are still a small space fish, more smoke than fire, so to speak.

If somebody could kick ESAs butt to start with a bit bigger percentage for space (like 4 times), i would be more than delighted, but it seems cuts are more likely, which is disgusting, with EU being such a huge economic power, crisis or not. There is always some crisis, and it's a crappy excuse.
It sucks to be Jean-Jacques, and i admire him for being able to steer through the EU political swamp.

 

[EarthlingX]

http://www.spaceref.com : Briefing by Senior Administration Officials on the President's National Space Policy Via Teleconference

PRESS RELEASE
Date Released: Tuesday, June 29, 2010
Source:Department of State

Office of the Spokesman Washington, DC June 28, 2010

OPERATOR: Good afternoon and thank you all for standing by. All participants will be able to listen only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference call. Today's call is being recorded. If anyone has any objections, you may disconnect at this time. And now I'll turn the call over to your first speaker, Mr. Mark Toner. Sir, you may begin.

MR. TONER: Thank you so much. Well, as you know, everyone, earlier today President Obama announced the Administration's new National Space Policy. And we are joined this afternoon with two senior State Department officials and hopefully someone from the White House in just a bit, and who are going to talk to us about the details of that policy and also be available to answer your questions. Just a reminder, this briefing is on background and, again, attributable to senior Administration officials.

And with that, I'll hand it over to our first senior official.

 

[orionrider]

If somebody could kick ESAs butt to start with a bit bigger percentage for space (like 4 times), i would be more than delighted, but it seems cuts are more likely, which is disgusting, with EU being such a huge economic power, crisis or not.

That's where Obama comes handy. The guy has up to 90% followers (in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands,...). If he kindly asks for European cooperation in a space mission, the EU politicians cannot afford to decline. They would be crucified on the electoral spot :mrgreen:
They need a good reason to justify and fund a manned mission. Obama is giving them one :idea:
After that, once a European has been the second (wo-)man to set foot on 1999AO10 or Phobos, there will be no more obstacles for decently funding ESA.