http://www.universetoday.com : Get Ready for the Perseids: Join the World in Watching
Edit: Persieds -> Perseids
Edit: Persieds -> Perseids
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Re: Persieds peak - 2010 Aug 11-14
I will certainly be watching if the weather & my health are up to it.
Andrew Brown.
I will certainly be watching if the weather & my health are up to it.
Andrew Brown.
I usually forget about it, or remember a day after, :roll: so i welcome a bump around the above date ..
My heaven observing gear seriously sux, so don't expect anything from me exactly, but i think Andrew might have a trick or two up his sleeve, weather permitting ..
I'm setting a camp on my front lawn, just in case ..
My heaven observing gear seriously sux, so don't expect anything from me exactly, but i think Andrew might have a trick or two up his sleeve, weather permitting ..
I'm setting a camp on my front lawn, just in case ..
http://www.imo.net/live/perseids2010/
This page shows automated results of the Perseids 2010, based on visual observations by volunteers astronomers collected through the report form of the International Meteor Organization (IMO). The information on this page is generated automatically; for scientific use please refer to manual analyses published in scientific journals (such as WGN).
Page contents:
Activity profile
Observer statistics
Data access
Credits and references
Currently, the highest reported ZHR is 29 +/-4
ZHR = The number of shower meteors per hour one observer would see if his limiting magnitude is 6.5mag and the radiant is in his zenith.
Based on data over the last 3 years, the highest rates should be between Aug 12 1200 UT (8 AM EDT) and Aug 13 2000 UT (4 PM EDT). That means for the US the night of Aug 12/13 should be the best, with the highest rates after midnight as the radiant rises higher in the sky.
This page shows automated results of the Perseids 2010, based on visual observations by volunteers astronomers collected through the report form of the International Meteor Organization (IMO). The information on this page is generated automatically; for scientific use please refer to manual analyses published in scientific journals (such as WGN).
Page contents:
Activity profile
Observer statistics
Data access
Credits and references
Currently, the highest reported ZHR is 29 +/-4
ZHR = The number of shower meteors per hour one observer would see if his limiting magnitude is 6.5mag and the radiant is in his zenith.
Based on data over the last 3 years, the highest rates should be between Aug 12 1200 UT (8 AM EDT) and Aug 13 2000 UT (4 PM EDT). That means for the US the night of Aug 12/13 should be the best, with the highest rates after midnight as the radiant rises higher in the sky.
There's a place here in SanDiego up in the mountains off sunrise highway where I've seen several people with big scopes on nights like these . If you live in the area it's on Desert View rd off Sunrise highway , it's a little cultasac/parking lot area . Everyones pretty friendly and willing to let you check things out if you like .
One of my better meteor night swas for the Geminids in Dec 04 in the mountains there. I went with a friend (one of the famous meteor observers in the US) and it was far clearer and less light polluted than anywhere here in the northeast. Saw just under 120 an hour, best since the Leonid storm of 2001.
Since scopes really arent made for meteor observation, I was wondering about using a video camera with a fisheye lens? Has anyone tried this?
Oh yes, in fact my observatory ( http://www.njaa.org ) has had a such a system for a few years until lightning fried it this spring. It should be up and running again soon.
The IMO ( http://www.imo.net ) has had a video network in existance for over a decade, and there's another in Japan, running for just about as long. In fact, many minor (2-3 ZHR ) showers have been verified by such networks because it's below the rate that will produce sufficient visual meteors to prove.
However, most don't use fisheyes, since they present some problems. One is they reduce the faintness of the meteors you can detect. This is not a problem with fireball (very bright meteor) networks that have been operating for many decades in Canada and the US. Another is that such lenses have problems with distortion that make it more difficult to properly identify the source shower; so most meteor networks typically use a smaller field of view which allows greater accuracy in determining the exact path.
MW
The IMO ( http://www.imo.net ) has had a video network in existance for over a decade, and there's another in Japan, running for just about as long. In fact, many minor (2-3 ZHR ) showers have been verified by such networks because it's below the rate that will produce sufficient visual meteors to prove.
However, most don't use fisheyes, since they present some problems. One is they reduce the faintness of the meteors you can detect. This is not a problem with fireball (very bright meteor) networks that have been operating for many decades in Canada and the US. Another is that such lenses have problems with distortion that make it more difficult to properly identify the source shower; so most meteor networks typically use a smaller field of view which allows greater accuracy in determining the exact path.
MW
MeteorWayne":29r3f8cr said:
Yeah the same thing is true at the location I mentioned , your a long way from anything like a city up there so far less light pollution . That's why people bring their scopes even to watch meteors because while your there and watching those might as well looks at other stuff too .
My son has a DSLR so we're going to go up friday night and take some long exposure shots , should be fun !
Latest raw data from the IMO shows the ZHR in the 15-20 range. As I suspected it would, the earlier reported peak of 28 has been shaved down as more data has come in...the spike was caused by 6 observers from one one location over a very short time interval.
Current high ZHR is 20, but I suspect that also is a small number peak. See the graph at the link above.
Currently 1348 Perseids reported in 422 intervals from 53 observers in 19 countries.
Over the next 24 hours, the rate should really start to ramp up.
The weather looks bad here, it may be a real struggle to get conditions good enough for me to record scientific data, but I'll watch on the peak nights just for the fun of it anyway. Last night it was "clear" here as in no clouds, but so hazy I could barely even see the Pleiades, which are usually easy to pick out. At 8 PM here, it's a thin overcast, won't even be able to see Venus this evening
Current high ZHR is 20, but I suspect that also is a small number peak. See the graph at the link above.
Currently 1348 Perseids reported in 422 intervals from 53 observers in 19 countries.
Over the next 24 hours, the rate should really start to ramp up.
The weather looks bad here, it may be a real struggle to get conditions good enough for me to record scientific data, but I'll watch on the peak nights just for the fun of it anyway. Last night it was "clear" here as in no clouds, but so hazy I could barely even see the Pleiades, which are usually easy to pick out. At 8 PM here, it's a thin overcast, won't even be able to see Venus this evening
Thanks for the reply Wayne.. What actually got me thinking about this is your avatar, which looks like it was taken thru a fisheye lens. My grandson (the owner of the cam) actually likes the idea and the lens is removeable. Thanks again and we are definatly goin to try this and see what we can capture.
Kirby Lance
Kirby Lance
Please see the IMO site I listed above. Available there is the MetRec software which is designed to detect and log meteors.
It takes some setup to explain to the SW what your field of view is, but once you've done that, it can identify each meteor detected by the source shower.
It takes some setup to explain to the SW what your field of view is, but once you've done that, it can identify each meteor detected by the source shower.
Only 2 results have come in from Greece and Belarus tonight. Sunrise is approaching in Europe, so some data should begin to trickle in soon. It takes a while to process for the observer to process the data, and somtimes we need to sleep first after being up all night
Up till last night, the ZHR was up to ~ 25 with 2449 Perseids reported to the IMO in 560 intervals from 66 observers in 21 countries. Tonight it should be about 30-35...
http://www.imo.net/live/perseids2010/
Up till last night, the ZHR was up to ~ 25 with 2449 Perseids reported to the IMO in 560 intervals from 66 observers in 21 countries. Tonight it should be about 30-35...
http://www.imo.net/live/perseids2010/
SteveCNC":24ak7xfc said:
I live in San Diego, thanks for that tip! I've been wondering where a good, dark site would be to view meteors that's also safe. I have to work on Friday so I'm not sure I'll be able to get up there, tho...
* edit: I just checked Google maps and couldn't find Desert View road, can you give more detailed directions?
crazyeddie":1hztvg4q said:
I think I found it, right by Mount Laguna. http://www.mapquest.com/mq/4-l_s8emiEHTEkR3QckCC0
Anyone who has a laptop and will be watching tonight might want to help out with the project described here: http://www.erasmatazz.com/page78/page128/PerseidProject/PerseidProject.html
It would seem there is more than one desert view rd on google maps but the one I mean is just south of the USAF station off Monument peak rd you'll see a desert view rd that ends in a circle , that's the one . A little north of the map location in the link above .
mikeh9741":1z2o44wq said:
Unfortunately, from a scientific point of view, this project is worthless, since it omits 3 or 4 crucial pieces of data for proper analysis....
Let me guess what is the most valuable data. 1 Time plus or minus one second 2 GPS co-ordinates 3 Starting direction and starting elevation 4 ending direction and ending elevation 5 brightness compared to a star or planet in about the same direction, whose name you know.
Start your stopwatch while viewing the event; Leave it running until you can determine the time the event occurred, by subtraction. That will take practice to be plus or minus one second. Double check your log entries for possible errors. If you are unsure about part of the entry, say so in the log. Take the time to insure accurate entries, even though it may mean you missed the next event. Compare log entries with others in your party. Don't change your entry except to add details of the possible error. If your party has multiple time standards that disagree by one or more seconds, describe this problem on an attachment to your log, including which standard your log used. Neil
Start your stopwatch while viewing the event; Leave it running until you can determine the time the event occurred, by subtraction. That will take practice to be plus or minus one second. Double check your log entries for possible errors. If you are unsure about part of the entry, say so in the log. Take the time to insure accurate entries, even though it may mean you missed the next event. Compare log entries with others in your party. Don't change your entry except to add details of the possible error. If your party has multiple time standards that disagree by one or more seconds, describe this problem on an attachment to your log, including which standard your log used. Neil
Good guesses, but still missing info, and a lot of it is overkill for known showers.
There's no need for to the second timing, for non peak times hourly intervals are fine. During major shower peaks, shorter intervals should be used; the idea during peaks is to have 10-20 meteors per interval.
I actually record my meteor times to the nearest minute, because I do some personal graphing in excel, this allows me to create the appropriately sized intervals when I report the obs to the IMO.
The start and end points of the meteors are not needed for known showers, and the direction and elevation method you suggested is unworkable. How accurate can you be in estimating these two items? Answer: Not very Elevation is notoriously hard to measure, and direction tells you not much since the average length of a meteor is about 3 degrees.
Here's the data that is required for proper analysis.
Observer name and location. The IMO assigns and ID for each observer, and another for each location for their observers. The date and start and end times of the session. The date is gien in a 2 day format..IOW, tonight would be Aug 12/13 2010. (Night of 12th, morning of 13th). Time is given in UT. (EDT +4 hrs for me)
Next is a list of showers you are watching for, and the radiant location for that night. All shower radiants move from night to night, so it is important to know where each one is, particularly when radants are near to each other. For example, if hell freezes over and it's clear tonight, there are 8 active showers besides the Perseids. The average meteor watcher might just look for 2 or 3 of those, and lump the rest in with the sporadic meteors (that which cannot be assigned to a specific shower. Just counting meteors may be interesting, but it's not terribly useful for scientific analysis. In general, radiants move about 1 degree per night as we move about 1 degree in our orbit around the sun each day.
For each observing interval, what is reported is the start and end time, The center of your field of view (in RA and Dec), the "Teff" (effective observing time) during the interval, a correction factor for parts of your field of view obscured by buildings, trees, clouds, etc (called "F"), the stellar limiting magnitude, and the number of meteors for each shower.
For a laptop type experiment, Teff would just equal the number of minutes divided by 60. Some observers write their data on paper, so it takes 5 or 10 seconds to record each meteor which has to be subtracted. I use a tape recorder, so don't have that problem when counting.
During slow times of the year, I plot meteors on special maps (called gnomic) that allow meteors to be plotted as straight lines. This is far more useful than the direction and elevation suggested. It puts the plots on a map, making it possible to determine shower associations afterward. It takes me between 30 seconds and a minute to plot each one, so I track the plot time and subtract that from the interval time.
The amount of the sky obscured is important, since of course, you cannot see meteors behind a tree or clouds, so your count is reduced. This needs to be accounted for.
The limiting magnitude of the sky ("LM") is extremely important. The likelyhood of seeing a meteor is strongly related to it's contrast against the background sky. A meteor 5 magnitudes brighter than the sky, in your field of view, will almost always be seen. Another that is only 1 magnitude above the background has a MUCH lower chance of being noticed. And of course, a meteor fainter than the background will not be seen at all. This is critically important. For example, "sporadic" meteors increase in number by about 3.4 times for each magnitude dimmer. That means for ever zero mag sporadic (about as bright as Vega or Arcurus) there are 454 5th magnitude meteors, and over 1500 6th magnitude ones. So if you LM is +5, you will only see a small part of the 5th mag meteors, and none of the 6th.
Most major showers are brighter, for the Perseids, there will be ~ 32 5th mag for each zero and 64 6th mag ones.
For each meteor seen, the following data is required; the shower it belongs to, and it's brightness (magnitude).
Shower association gets easy with practice. A meteor belongs to a shower if the backwards prolongonation of it's path intersects the radaint, and the angular speed in the sky is correct for the shower meteors veloicty, it's distance from the radiant, and it's elevation in the sky. During the Perseid peak, most (but not all) of the meteors will belong to that shower, so it's a little easier I use a cord that I stretch out between my hands to ensure the path actually hits the radiant...a stickler for accuracy am I. Most people don't.
The magnitude is important for determining the ratio of bright to dim meteors I mentioned above. I have about 30 reference stars that I know the magnitude for.
It takes a little practice, but valuable data can be collected by anyone, and it is used for real science, including modeling of cometary orbits and meteor streams, showing evolution of the solar system.
There's no need for to the second timing, for non peak times hourly intervals are fine. During major shower peaks, shorter intervals should be used; the idea during peaks is to have 10-20 meteors per interval.
I actually record my meteor times to the nearest minute, because I do some personal graphing in excel, this allows me to create the appropriately sized intervals when I report the obs to the IMO.
The start and end points of the meteors are not needed for known showers, and the direction and elevation method you suggested is unworkable. How accurate can you be in estimating these two items? Answer: Not very
Elevation is notoriously hard to measure, and direction tells you not much since the average length of a meteor is about 3 degrees.Here's the data that is required for proper analysis.
Observer name and location. The IMO assigns and ID for each observer, and another for each location for their observers. The date and start and end times of the session. The date is gien in a 2 day format..IOW, tonight would be Aug 12/13 2010. (Night of 12th, morning of 13th). Time is given in UT. (EDT +4 hrs for me)
Next is a list of showers you are watching for, and the radiant location for that night. All shower radiants move from night to night, so it is important to know where each one is, particularly when radants are near to each other. For example, if hell freezes over and it's clear tonight, there are 8 active showers besides the Perseids. The average meteor watcher might just look for 2 or 3 of those, and lump the rest in with the sporadic meteors (that which cannot be assigned to a specific shower. Just counting meteors may be interesting, but it's not terribly useful for scientific analysis. In general, radiants move about 1 degree per night as we move about 1 degree in our orbit around the sun each day.
For each observing interval, what is reported is the start and end time, The center of your field of view (in RA and Dec), the "Teff" (effective observing time) during the interval, a correction factor for parts of your field of view obscured by buildings, trees, clouds, etc (called "F"), the stellar limiting magnitude, and the number of meteors for each shower.
For a laptop type experiment, Teff would just equal the number of minutes divided by 60. Some observers write their data on paper, so it takes 5 or 10 seconds to record each meteor which has to be subtracted. I use a tape recorder, so don't have that problem when counting.
During slow times of the year, I plot meteors on special maps (called gnomic) that allow meteors to be plotted as straight lines. This is far more useful than the direction and elevation suggested. It puts the plots on a map, making it possible to determine shower associations afterward. It takes me between 30 seconds and a minute to plot each one, so I track the plot time and subtract that from the interval time.
The amount of the sky obscured is important, since of course, you cannot see meteors behind a tree or clouds, so your count is reduced. This needs to be accounted for.
The limiting magnitude of the sky ("LM") is extremely important. The likelyhood of seeing a meteor is strongly related to it's contrast against the background sky. A meteor 5 magnitudes brighter than the sky, in your field of view, will almost always be seen. Another that is only 1 magnitude above the background has a MUCH lower chance of being noticed. And of course, a meteor fainter than the background will not be seen at all. This is critically important. For example, "sporadic" meteors increase in number by about 3.4 times for each magnitude dimmer. That means for ever zero mag sporadic (about as bright as Vega or Arcurus) there are 454 5th magnitude meteors, and over 1500 6th magnitude ones. So if you LM is +5, you will only see a small part of the 5th mag meteors, and none of the 6th.
Most major showers are brighter, for the Perseids, there will be ~ 32 5th mag for each zero and 64 6th mag ones.
For each meteor seen, the following data is required; the shower it belongs to, and it's brightness (magnitude).
Shower association gets easy with practice. A meteor belongs to a shower if the backwards prolongonation of it's path intersects the radaint, and the angular speed in the sky is correct for the shower meteors veloicty, it's distance from the radiant, and it's elevation in the sky. During the Perseid peak, most (but not all) of the meteors will belong to that shower, so it's a little easier
I use a cord that I stretch out between my hands to ensure the path actually hits the radiant...a stickler for accuracy am I. Most people don't.The magnitude is important for determining the ratio of bright to dim meteors I mentioned above. I have about 30 reference stars that I know the magnitude for.
It takes a little practice, but valuable data can be collected by anyone, and it is used for real science, including modeling of cometary orbits and meteor streams, showing evolution of the solar system.
Well some early results are in on the Perseids peak night. So far, based on 11,105 Perseids reported to the IMO in 1780 intervals by 138 observers in 32 counties, it appears the peak occurred between 2000 UT Aug 12 and 0000 UT Aug 13, almost exactly at the "normal" peak time at Solar Longitude 140.0. This is using periods with 200-2000 Perseids included. The peak ZHR was 82 +/- 3. That's equal to 77 Perseid meteors per billion cubic km.
The peak peek, using shorter intervals with less Perseids (hence "noisier") shows a top rate of 90 +/- 5.
There's also one late report from a single observer whick produces a peak rate of 130 +/- 22 at 1100 UT on the 13th, but that's quite preliminary since most observers in the US have not had a chance to file their reports yet. It's based on only 33 Perseids in 0.517 hour.
There's plenty more data to be absorbed (probably another 10,000 Perseids) so this is just a quick look, and this data has not been quality checked, so is experimentally preliminary.
Of course, for me the peak occurred on the other side of the overcast
Hopefully I'll get to see a few this weekend.
Here's the raw data.
http://www.imo.net/live/perseids2010/
Here's the SDC story:
http://www.space.com/spacewatch/perseid ... 00813.html
The peak peek, using shorter intervals with less Perseids (hence "noisier") shows a top rate of 90 +/- 5.
There's also one late report from a single observer whick produces a peak rate of 130 +/- 22 at 1100 UT on the 13th, but that's quite preliminary since most observers in the US have not had a chance to file their reports yet. It's based on only 33 Perseids in 0.517 hour.
There's plenty more data to be absorbed (probably another 10,000 Perseids) so this is just a quick look, and this data has not been quality checked, so is experimentally preliminary.
Of course, for me the peak occurred on the other side of the overcast
Hopefully I'll get to see a few this weekend.
Here's the raw data.
http://www.imo.net/live/perseids2010/
Here's the SDC story:
http://www.space.com/spacewatch/perseid ... 00813.html
SteveCNC":1al2e57n said:
I found the Monument Peak Rd on the map, but it doesn't intersect with Desert View Road as far as I can see. There's also a "Desert View Pg" and a "Desert View Overlook", but those are nowhere near Monument Peak Rd. Is this north of the spot on the map marked "Mt. Laguna"? And is this a place other amateurs gather on a regular basis?
crazyeddie":1hc8gs5u said:
If you find the Mt. Laguna USAF station off Sunrise Hwy it is the next road south down Sunrise Hwy from the most south Monument Peak Rd. On google map it's got a number at the intersection 10687 . It looks like a short dead end road but if you look at the satelite version you can see it's actually a circle at the end .
As for people being up there ? well it has been a few years since I last went up there on such a night but the times I have gone before there is usually several people there . I got to look through the biggest privately owned telescope I have ever seen up there one night , I've only looked through one better , that's the one at SanDiego State .
Where I live (oceanside) the clouds are starting to roll in but it should be clear up in the Lagunas .
here's driving direction from oceanside
Driving directions to Desert View Rd
84.7 mi – about 1 hour 31 mins
Suggested routes
Oceanside, CA
1. Head northwest on N Coast Hwy toward Mission Ave 20 ft
2. Take the 1st right onto Mission Ave 0.4 mi
3. Merge onto I-5 S via the ramp to San Diego 22.3 mi
4. Slight left at I-805 S 10.8 mi
5. Take exit 17B to merge onto I-8 E toward El Centro 40.6 mi
6. Take exit 47 toward Sunrise Hwy 0.3 mi
7. Turn left at Old Hwy 80 0.2 mi
8. Continue onto San Diego County Rd S 1 9.9 mi
9. Slight right at Desert View Rd 0.1 mi
Desert View Rd
Went up there last night and stuck around till about 2am . our best pic for the night was
or for full size star picture link
We were on a learning mission and tried several different settings but that one caught a meteor and came out reasonably clear inspite of the fairly strong wind . There was some light polution coming from Brawley/ElCentro to the east and Borrego Springs to the north but it wasn't too bad . There was several people up there for the same thing although it didn't appear that there was any organized meet up just a lot of individuals and families . Next time I'm bringing a lounge chair and a sleeping bag !
or for full size star picture link
We were on a learning mission and tried several different settings but that one caught a meteor and came out reasonably clear inspite of the fairly strong wind . There was some light polution coming from Brawley/ElCentro to the east and Borrego Springs to the north but it wasn't too bad . There was several people up there for the same thing although it didn't appear that there was any organized meet up just a lot of individuals and families . Next time I'm bringing a lounge chair and a sleeping bag !
With over 30,000 Perseid meteors reported to the IMO in 4218 intervals from 223 observers in 40 countries...
The large chunk peak ZHR is 102 +/-5 at Solar Longitude 139.684 (1544 UT on Aug 12, +/- 1 hour or so)
Looking at smaller bins, the peak is ZHR 129 +/-11 at SL 139.748; however, most of these observations come from a few locations under conditions which include large correction factors to get to ZHR, so will probably not pass QA.
The large chunk peak ZHR is 102 +/-5 at Solar Longitude 139.684 (1544 UT on Aug 12, +/- 1 hour or so)
Looking at smaller bins, the peak is ZHR 129 +/-11 at SL 139.748; however, most of these observations come from a few locations under conditions which include large correction factors to get to ZHR, so will probably not pass QA.
This is not exactly related to Perseids, but it offers explanations of possible causes :
http://www.newscientist.com : Solved: mystery of the meteor-shedding asteroid
http://www.newscientist.com : Solved: mystery of the meteor-shedding asteroid
...
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