Planet with 31 hour year

[docm]

Link....<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>Massive Transiting Planet with 31-hour Year Found Around Distant Star</b><br /><br />Flagstaff, Ariz.– An international team of astronomers with the Trans-atlantic Exoplanet Survey today announce the discovery of their third planet, TrES-3. The new planet was identified by astronomers looking for transiting planets – that is, planets that pass in front of their home star – using a network of small automated telescopes in Arizona, California, and the Canary Islands. TrES-3 was discovered in the constellation Hercules about 10 degrees west of Vega, the brightest star in the summer skies.<br /><br />"TrES-3 is an unusual planet as it orbits its parent star in just 31 hours!," said Georgi Mandushev, Lowell Observatory astronomer. "That is to say, the year on this planet lasts less than one and a third days. It is also a very massive planet – about twice the mass of the solar system's biggest planet, Jupiter – and is one of the planets with the shortest known periods."<br /><br />The new planet TrES-3 was first noticed by Lowell Observatory's Planet Search Survey Telescope (PSST), set up and operated by Edward Dunham and Georgi Mandushev. The Sleuth telescope, maintained by David Charbonneau (CfA) and Francis O'Donovan (Caltech), at Caltech's Palomar Observatory also observed transits of TrES-3, confirming the initial detections. TrES-3 is about 800 light-years distant and because it is so close to its host star, it is very hot, about 1,500 degrees Kelvin.<br /><br />"TrES-3 will be an intriguing object to study more deeply, said Edward Dunham, Lowell Observatory instrument scientist. "For example, its tight orbit causes it to be illuminated very strongly. This may make it possible to measure the variation in reflected light as it goes through its phases. This will tell us how reflective its atmo</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

31 hour YEAR, that is...<br /><br />I expect its day is probably quite variable, and rotates at different speeds at different latitudes at different times. I can't imagine a gas giant could get tidally locked.

 

[docm]

Yes, a typo but then again it could be <i>both.</i> There is precedence. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

I'm not sure I understand what it would mean to be a tidally locked gas giant. Sure, I can believe that there would be a tidal bulge pointed along the axis to the parent star, but there is presumably nothing to "lock". In other words, while the shape may be oblong, the matter in the planet still flows around, meaning that any given particle will travel around the world. In this sense, it would not be tidally locked.<br /><br />Of course, this may not be how it really works, and if there is a rocky or iron core, then we could certainly talk about IT being tidally locked.<br /><br />But even if it IS locked, that still doesn't give a 31-hour day, it gives a day of infinite duration!

 

[h2ouniverse]

Hmm. Why should the gaseous state prevent the tidal locking? To convince yourself, imagine a liquid planet. Being liquid would not prevent it from locking. The star-ward bulge would gather some water, so as to be in hydrostatic equilibrium. Same for gas, or supercritic fluid. The curve obtained for altitude r is such that GM/d²+ Gm/r² - r.spin² - d.omega² = constant, with G the grav constant 6.67e-11, M the star mass, m the planet mass, r the altitude, d the distance between the considered point and the center of gravity of the star-planet system, omega the pulsation of planet about the star. Spin=0 rad/s is just one particular case. You still have one star-ward bulge and an opposite anti-star bulge (GM/d² compensated by d.omega²).<br /><br />Actually being fluid even accelerates the tidal locking, as more "twice-a-day" displacement occurs, hence more work of the tidal forces (force multiplied by displcement), more dissipation and friction. In addition, the strong storms and relative motions of layers dissipate spin energy even without considering anything else that self-gravitation and spin (e.g. in Jupiter, Saturn...).<br /><br />You may have severe winds and atmospheric circulation to manage the thermal gradient. But no more global spin energy except the one of the yearly rotation. Measuring locally the centrifugal force gives an indication of the spin, so there is an absolute reference. This is not a relative notion (non-galilean referential).<br /><br />For Earth, the spin energy decreases by about 4e17J every second, hence 4e17 W=400,000.TW. It goes essentially into the acceleration of the Moon (increasing Earth-Moon distance) but a very small part is dissipated on Earth (about 2.6 TW, essentially in the oceans). This small proportion is due to the relatively low-pressure atmosphere (only 1ppm of Earth mass), that does not allow for a large dissipation in gas flows. The main low-viscosity fluid is the water of the oceans(0.02% of Earth mass).<br /><br />Best r

 

[majornature]

Wow! You know how old I'd be if Earth had a 31-hour years. Just imagine a 31 hour-year times 365 Earth days...that's eternity!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>

 

[nexium]

Perhaps the original post said 31 hour day and has been edited.<br />Jupiter is not tide locked, but we can tell the cloud tops rotate in a 10 hour day. The interior of Jupiter likely rotates at a different speed than the cloud tops. On a tide locked planet the cloud patterns would appear to rotate approximately once per year. Neil

 

[MeteorWayne]

Yes it said 31 hour day, but was corrected to 31 hour year, since the day is still unknown.<br /><br />What parts of an object at that distance (anyone see an orbital radius?) would be locked is speculative at this point <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[majornature]

well if this planet's annual cycle is 31 hours, then a day could aquaint to a couple of minutes to an hour on it's axis would it not? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

If it is tidally locked, there would be no day or night... it would be a constant. I would assume (incorrectly quite possibly) that this planet (at minimum, its core) is tidally locked, however, the atmosphere probably has some serious convection happening allowing somewhat a fluid rotation. Just a guess. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[3488]

Would not have long to wait for Christmas or Annual Pay Rise!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I'm sure they'd "Improve" the benefits to take that into account <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

H20:<br /><br />After reading your post, I think you are right. While no particular "piece" of the planet would necessarily remain fixed, tidal locking could be defined as a loss of spin energy or rotational momentum. I hadn't thought of that!

 

[3488]

In all seriousness, I would expect the inner layers of this planet to be synchronously locked<br />to its parent sun.<br /><br />However, a deep atmosphere, would IMO be highly mobile, with a permanent area of low pressure at or near the<br />sub steller point, with an area of high pressure at the opposite side.<br /><br />Winds would travel at supersonic speed from the low pressure, descending at the high pressure end.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

"Would not have long to wait for Christmas or Annual Pay Rise"<br /><br />Granted. But the working day is going to be long, especially in the end (from W. Allen). <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[majornature]

I don't mean to be late on this, but what does IMO mean again? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"...but what does IMO mean again?"</font><br /><br />IMO = In My Opinion <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

Not to be confused with IMHO, which is "In my humble opinion".

 

[robnissen]

Not to be confused with IYFO!! In Your Fu.... uh never mind.

 

[majornature]

ohhh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>

 

[brellis]

Would life be very good if you're a surfer on a planet with a 31 hour year? I'm imagining some VERY BIG WAVES <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

If your planet (and one would assume its moon) is tidally locked, there would be no tides. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[brellis]

Does proximity dictate tidal lock?<br /><br />Consider the orbits of the Jovian/Saturnian moons. Europa has some global-scale shifts take place as it revolves. Enceladus literally bursts at the seams during its orbit. If those bodies were warm enough to thaw the ice, the tides might be pretty grand. So, if the Jupiter system orbited the sun at 1AU, its moons could be exciting destinations for interplanetary surfers, perhaps. I'm just pondering -- the li'l pea in my head is spinning real fast right now, hehe <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /><br /> <br /><br />btw, i have no idea how to surf, but I admire the instincts and calculations of a good surfer. i also admire the ability of the JPL engineers to send spacecraft out to vast distances with such impeccable precision. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi brellis.<br /><br />Yes, Europa's surface does appear to make an extra one revolution every 500,000<br />years, but the core & mantle are tidally locked on Jupiter.<br /><br />Enceladus indeed is bursting at the seams at its south pole!!!<br /><br />A planet very close to its parent star IMO is different.<br /><br />Take Io, Jupiter's volcanic moon. Its average equatorial diameter is 3,633 KM, it polar diameter 3,628 KM & its longest diameter towards Jupiter is 3,690 KM, some 57 KM out of round. <br /><br />These figures are not even constant as Jupiter's gravity varies on Io due to Io's<br />very slightly eccentric orbit (one part in 250).<br /><br />Io is imprisoned with one face turned towards Jupiter, despite the best efforts of Europa, Ganymede & Callisto to turn the bulge,<br />their way, thus causing the voilent volcanism on the moon sized world.<br /><br />An extrasolar Jovian planet in a star hugging orbit (like 51 Pegasi), will have a tidal bulge thousands <br />of KM long (unless the planet is dense like Earth, Mercury or Venus). IMO therefore, <br />it cannot have any rotation of its own,<br />other than its orbital period around its parent sun.<br /><br />If there are other large planets close by (like the Upsilon Andromedae system)<br />this Io analogue would be extreme in the very least.<br /><br />My new gear has just arrived, so hopefully, I will be back later. This will be my final post with my old, not very good stuff.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[onesimple]

These gas planets of the new planet kind are according to my so thought, pushed previously in the proportion to further away until from their star,, they when they exploded in other words when they expanded three-dimensionally enough have started to drop from star come photons partly themselves through, and all business energy of the like this photons is no longer moved to the in question gas planets as completely. Due to this business of the in question gas planets and so forth from their star has slowed, and like this because of surface, which is all the time pushed and so forth because of from the centre, has started to achieve until in question gas planets,, in question low density three-dimensionally expand gas planets have alighted to the protrusion and so forth from their star because of nearby.<br /><br />One my thought firm news tells, how massive eksoplanets rhytmics his mother star certain gas floor. In question gas floor does not go around same speed because of centre around, just massive eksoplaneetta opens that is why dense / energetic energy waves towards the star , that that certain gas floor expands always faster then, when planet is for it star on the half. This is similar phenomenon as month caused tide phenomenon .