Planetary Society protest letter. Please sign!!

[frodo1008]

It may come as a surprise to some on these boards that I who have in the past defended the manned portion of NASA would even consider starting such a thread! However, as I have stated in many other posts, just because I defend the manned portion DOESN'T mean that I am willing to see the robotic and other science programs at NASA gutted just to pay for the manned program part of NASA!!<br /><br />To this poster at least, BOTH sections of NASA are absolutely necessary for the furtherance of humanities efforts in space. These programs are NOT competitive, they are complimentary! The knowledge obtained by our robotic partners in this great effort IS essential to further both the manned exploration and eventual exploitation of the solar system and eventually beyond into interstellar space!! <br /><br />I don't even begin to understand how President Bush can say that he supports a renaissance of American science to inspire our young people to enter science fields in this country and then NOT back up his speech with the necessary funds for these programs!! Do we not "Walk the talk!", or do we?? No, I am no turning this into a typical anti Bush free space thread by stating this. However, the budget proposal of the current administration IS the responsibility of the current administration, whether others on these boards like it or not. Neither am I against the increases in military spending (although I do have doubt of our involvement in certain areas), but to give a 7% increase to the military, (above inflation) which comes to MORE funding than NASA's ENTIRE budget just in the increase, is not justifiable in comparison to the paltry 1% (above inflation) increase to NASA's current budget!<br /><br />NASA can't do all of the things that the current administration and congress have asked it to do in the time frame that NASA has been given to do these things without at least a 10% increase (again, above inflation)!! It isn't just difficult it is IMPOSSIBLE!!<br /><br />To me a

 

[ldyaidan]

Done. <br /><br />What kind of support would there be from SDC members for the ability to send in contributions to NASA? If we could get a grassroots support campaign going, it would help with NASA's budget issues, as well as send a message to Congress. My suggestion is that those contributions can be specified for certain projects, ie: moon/mars, ISS, CEV/Shuttle replacement, robotic exploration and so on. I personnally spend over $100 a year in space advocacy memberships. I would happily make an annual contribution to NASA's efforts, help with local fundraisers and so on, if that were an option. In addition to helping NASA financially, we would also be bringing space advocacy into the public view, in a more positive light. Any feedback on this idea?<br /><br />Rae

 

[frodo1008]

I think that is an excellent idea! Perhaps the mods such as calli who certainly have greater access to more advanced information here on space.com could help find out if there already is a mechanism for such contributions?? How about it MODS??

 

[BReif]

<font color="yellow">"One is to increase the budget as I have suggested by some 10% to enable NASA to fly and retire the shuttle after the seventeen or eighteen flights it will take to complete the ISS to core completion and service the Hubble telescope (in itself a science necessity) for the last time. And at the same time design and build the CEV system as the follow on to the shuttle, with said system to be at least flyable within some two years of the shuttle's retirement. AND at the same time retain the ability to perform all the necessary science work for which NASA is so justifiably known for!"</font><br /><br /><br />I agree. It is my hope that NASA would receive a budget increase to enable the VSE timeline to remain solidly fixed, and to fund these science missions as well. <br /><br />Much less preferred is option #2.

 

[frodo1008]

Yep!! I would hope that even askold and such posters would be willing to agree here!

 

[CalliArcale]

I actually do not have any more information than you do about how to get money to NASA. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> The only ways I know are:<br /><br />1) Visit one of their museums with an entrance fee, or attend Space Camp or something similar. Of course, the fee really only goes to cover operating the museum, so it's not terribly useful as far as actually getting money to the unmanned program.<br /><br />2) Write your congressman and tell them to support more funding for NASA.<br /><br />3) Get a higher paying job so you pay more taxes. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (Of course, that really only increases the government's income; it doesn't mean NASA will get more budget. So it only helps NASA on the very broadest of principles.)<br /><br />I have no clue whether there's a mechanism for private entities to grant funding to NASA. It'd be cool if there was. I can imagine benefit dinners, fundraising events, raffles.... It'd be great fun! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

The only thing that I can think of is that perhaps because everything the government does is so political in nature (not nrcessarily a bad thing, after all to some extent this is the direct result of elected democratic government) that giving money to any particular government agency is kind of like the current lobyist scandals with the current congress. Which in this case happens to be in the power of the Republicans, but this problem was also there when the Democrats were in charge of congress. So this particular "influence" problem is one of the more bi-partisan of the aspects of our government!! <br /><br />However, I think it was the great and wise Winston Churchill that said "Democracy is the worst form of government, Except for all the other forms of government!!"<br /><br />As a possible example, if people were to be able to directly contribute to NASA, then perhaps so should corporations (which are to some extent legalistically considered as individuals). If Boeing were to contribute funds to NASA would that then be influence buying? <br /><br />I admit that while I can see the problem. I am just not sure of the solution. I do think however (like Callli) that the idea does have merit. But like many other things "The devil is in the details!".

 

[frodo1008]

Well, to some extent I got the choir, in posters such as Calli (bless her beautiful heart), and shuttle_guy (space.com's best, at least as far as I am concerned). <br /><br />Where are all th usual protesters?? I would think that this would be a no brainer for the likes of askold!! <br /><br />Come on people! Unless you are TOTALLY against the space program, you should RUSH to do this!! If not what are you doing on this site anyway, except trolling?<br /><br />I will keep posting here, and even do something I have never done before. I will even bump this thread to keep it alive. At least until I have seen at least a reasonable amount of other posters. Heck, I will even go over to free space if necessary and drag those people into it! Yes, in the case of some of those people you can consider that a threat!!

 

[BReif]

<font color="yellow">"Come on people! Unless you are TOTALLY against the space program, you should RUSH to do this!! If not what are you doing on this site anyway, except trolling?"</font><br /><br />Maybe you are on to something here, Frodo. This is why I started my thread about whether or not SDC message boards were pro-space anymore. <br />

 

[frodo1008]

Thank you! My error, I should have done this before!!<br /><br />http://planetary.org/programs/projects/space_advocacy/

 

[frodo1008]

I think I probably mentioned this on another post, but this policy is probably designed to avoid the same kind of conflict of interest issues that congress is now facing!!

 

[frodo1008]

Not only that but I really wish that some uninformed posters here would stop blaiming Mike Griffin for NASA's budgetary situation! It is the current administration that proposes NASA's budget, and the present congress that has to apporove that budget (or more hopefullly in this case make changes to it)! All Mike Griffin and NASA can do is try to live with the results!!

 

[gsuschrist]

The Shuttle doesn't exist in isolation. Today Republican and Democraic overseers both criticised NASA as having little credibility and more or less nixing any future spending increases. Griffin is not getting NASA's act together and is damaging the prospect of a Moon mission. Congress will want to know:<br /><br />-can NASA complete a Moon mision within the budget and timeline it says it will?<br /><br />-why should the Congress believe Griffin or any other NASA officials if they say they can?

 

[frodo1008]

I am going to do something that I don't like in other posters, but here I think it is necessary in this case. Could you please provide a link as I see nothing here or in the general media about what you are talking about here!<br /><br />Also, even congress is intelligent enough to know that programs that extend over entire administrations and congresses can only give estimates of the costs involved, so of course they know that they can't take NASA's (or anybody else’s word either) that there won't be any cost over runs on these types of programs! Both the shuttle and the ISS programs have spent about 100 billion over more then 20 years! If there is less than a 5 billion dollar over run that is less than 5%. Which ANY reasonable engineer or accountant will tell you is very good! Almost every long term military program there is over runs by at least 10%, and the latest military budget is getting a 7% increase over inflation!!<br /><br />Besides it IS the ADMINISTRATION and CONGRESS that sets the programs and goals for NASA, NOT NASA itself!!<br /><br />Do try to at least wake up and smell the roses here!<br /><br />Did you go out to the Planetary Societies site to sign their letter on behave of the space science programs of NASA?<br /><br />

 

[kdavis007]

If the planetary society really cared about the science missions in space why can't they fund it themselves and charge for the pretty pictures???

 

[kdavis007]

I'll sign the petition until the Planetary Society changes their position about human space travel...

 

[mikejz]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />"I wonder if a private company couldn't be set up to take donations to NASA?" <br /><br />NASA can not take donations from anyone. <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br /><br />Well, actually if anyone is interested in making a donation to Nasa I can arrange an indirect way in the form of paying my taxes for me <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /></p></blockquote></p></blockquote>

 

[ldyaidan]

The reason I suggest this, simply because NASA has the most funding. The Planetary Society, NSS, and so on probably have several million dollars each to work with, but NASA has Billions... and it's not enough. If Congress shows that people are willing to help fiancially, ie: put our money where our mouths are, then it might help. Get the different advocacy groups to throw in their resources for their area of interests, and suddenly you have a national space program, that involves everyone. Just a suggestion. I know many of us don't have the technical expertise or anything that can help with the problem. But, we do have a lot of passion, and a few extra $$. Also, perhaps with some civilian input we can also help keep things on track. Besides, if we can help bring space more into the public's eye, it will help drive support for NASA. When you mention space advocacy, or human exploration and colonization of space to most people, you get a lot of blank looks. Hard to get people to support something that they don't think about or understand.<br /><br />Thanks for all the feedback. I just really think we need a unified, civilian space program, that either supports NASA, or has NASA as part of the support structure.<br /><br />I know a lot of different groups have been started, all with good intentions, but without a strong, cohesive backing, they usually fizzle, or have a huge goal ahead of them that I don't see them being able to reach alone.<br /><br /><br />Rae

 

[john_316]

One thing I mentioned before in other posts is for NASA to more like the US Postal Service and be allowed to make a proffit and allow to charge for certain services even with or for the DOD.<br /><br />Leases and other activities can help enlarge NASA's coffers with cash. If NASA would redo NASA's charter to allow this then NASA can in affect bring in more dollars.<br /><br />I would like to see this...<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />

 

[frodo1008]

This particular American taxpayer has no objection to international support on this particular issue! The knowledge obtained by the space sicence program(s) AND the manned space programs(s) of NASA is indeed a great benifit "for ALL mankind!"