Pluto moon Charon producing ice geysers???????

3488 · Jul 17, 2007

Pluto's Moon is an Ice Machine By Staff Writer posted: 17 July 2007 04:20 pm ET Slushy geysers on Pluto's moon Charon coat the tiny world in ice crystals and make it the outer solar system equivalent of an ice machine. Astronomers learned of the ice deposits after discovering the spectral fingerprints of ammonia hydrates and water crystals in light coming from the moon. The findings suggest that liquid water mixed with ammonia from deep within Charon is pushing out slowly onto the moon's frigid surface. The researchers ruled out other possible mechanisms for the ice and concluded it must be due to cryovolcanism-the eruption of liquids and from inside the moon. "There are a number of mechanisms that could explain the presence of crystalline water ice on the surface of Charon," said study leader Jason Cook of Arizona State University. "Our spectra point consistently to cryovolcanism, which brings liquid water to the surface, where it freezes into ice crystals. That implies that Charon's interior possesses liquid water." Cryovolcanism also occurs on other moons in the solar system, including Saturn's moon Enceladus and the Jovian satellite Europa. The researchers speculate that heat from radioactive materials in Charon's interior is creating a pool of melted water mixed with ammonia. "As some of the subsurface water cools and approaches the freezing point, it expands into the cracks in the ice shell above it," Cook explained. When the liquid water reaches the surface, it immediately freezes and "snows" back down onto the moon's surface, creating bright ice patches that are visible in the infrared. The ammonia functions like an antifreeze and prevents the liquid water inside the moon from turning solid. "Like the antifreeze we're familiar with here on Earth, it depresses the melting point of <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 17, 2007

Great info Andrew, Thanx MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jul 17, 2007

Hi MeteorWayne. I thought this may be of interest. I do not know specifically to which observations this new information is based on. It is certainly very new information. But it is looking increasingly likely that Charon will join the list of currently active worlds in our solar system. Fascinating indeed. New Horizons, please DO NOT LET US DOWN!!!!!!!! BTW, I wonder if similar observations can be done with Quaoar & Eris. Quaoar showing signs of abundant crystalline ice & Eris being so reflective, second only to Enceladus & edging ahead of Triton, both known to be active. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jul 17, 2007

Just found out, it was from the Gemini North IR observations. Nice artists impression, with cryovolcanic eruptions on Charon depicted. Charon in the foreground with Pluto, looking somewhat like Ganymede in the background. Apparently Quaoar & Orcus are going to be observed in the same way. Another link here Spaceflightnow.com. Andrew Brown. Artist impression of Pluto's moon Charon. Image credit: Software Bisque/Loch Ness Productions. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

jaxtraw · Jul 18, 2007

The solar system seems to be turning out to be a remarkably active place! This is one reason I'm a little skeptical about being too keen to make predictions about far away (astronomical) places. The solar system, the one part of the universe we can closely study, is full of surprises. We must not I think be too ready to jump to conclusions about, for instance, other stellar systems. If we could get probes there I think we'd be surprised again <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

robnissen · Jul 18, 2007

What I find especially interesting is the number of places in the solar system with liquid water. The fact that there is so much liquid water inside the solar system, makes it more likely there is quite a bit of liquid water in other star systems. ET is almost certainly out there (at least as a microbe).

deapfreeze · Jul 18, 2007

I agree, With all this water we are bound to find something even if its only microbes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> William ( deapfreeze ) Hooperhttp://deapfreeze-amateur-astronomy.tk/ </div>

jaxtraw · Jul 18, 2007

It may be that the norm for life in the universe is to shelter under an icy shield, and our own existence, naked to space, is a rare and remarkable thing <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

3488 · Jul 19, 2007

Hi borman. It is true that crystalline ice has been known on Charon for some time now. As you say, the clincher is the very recently found ammonia hydrate signature. Pluto & Charon are tidally locked, so much so, that both would be expected to be 'frozen' in shape. Perhaps Nix & Hydra are tugging a little bit, but IMO, they are far too lightweight to affect these two large objects. I can only think of two things. 1). Charon is active due to fossil heat from a large collision. 2). There are radioactive material involved. Perhaps both are involved. I like your idea "Perhaps Charon collided with Pluto and this kickstarted a further differentiation that stalled earlier in Charon's evolution. But this does not help with other more isolated bodies such as Quaoar " The fact that Quaoar also displays large quanities of crystalline ice, as well as Orcus too probably bodes well with the radioactive theory. This crude map of Charon below, clearly shows what looks like a circular feature. Impact basin, the heat of its creation perhaps responsible for present day activity????? Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

jaxtraw · Jul 19, 2007

At the risk of being cranky-- <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> The left-field suggestion that many of the planets contain fission reactors at their cores, if correct, might suggest a higher abundance of radioactive materials in the early solar system, which have accreted to planets and sunk to their cores- in some cases reaching critical mass to produce a functioning reactor (the argument is that this is what produces Earth's magnetic field and excess heat from 3 of the 4 gas giants). If so, could the increasing number of "anomalously warm" moons and small bodies be some evidence in favour of this minority hypothesis?

3488 · Jul 19, 2007

Another thought, probably brain dead stupid, but here goes, Could radioactive elements in the outermost reaches of the solar system come from supernovae??? As the solar system orbits the galactic centre, once every 225 million years, at some time or another, the Sun must have passed close to exploding stars!!! This is one of the reasons I wiould like to see deep core samples bought back from the Moon. Perhaps some of the KBOs may also hold records?? Hi again borman, AFAIK, both Eris & Pluto are covered in frozen methane, hence any crystalline ice on both is hidden?? Quite like the artist impression below: Charon is the largest moon of Pluto and is about half the diameter of it's parent planet. Eclipses are rare but they occur in brief 'seasons' during the course of Pluto's 248 year orbit. This is a rendition from the last eclipse season in the late 1980's and shows Pluto in the sky of Charon. The shadow of Charon is upon the disk of Pluto. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jul 19, 2007

Hi Jaxtraw. It is not necessarily cranky. Would radioactive elements have to be extremely compacted to cause the fission you refer too? I think that is what the difficulty is. With Venus & Earth, as well as the cores maybe of the Jovian planets, it is more likely. Charon, Quaoar I would not have thought they could provide the compression necessary. I could be wrong though. AFAIK, the accepted density of Charon is about 1.7 gcm3. Hi reikel. Very true indeed. I wonder if some of these objects could be home to anerobic bacteria??? The solar system indeed is continuing to churn out more surprises. Below is a diagram of the currently accepted cross section of Charon, maybe Quaoar too. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

jaxtraw · Jul 19, 2007

Well, all these relatively short-lived isotopes that keep getting flung into the mix to explain planetary development have to be coming from somewhere <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

jaxtraw · Jul 19, 2007

Hi Andrew, I wasn't suggesting a reactor in these smaller bodies as you point out it'd be difficult getting enough uranium in there to reach critical mass-- merely that perhaps the proportion of radioactive material in the solar system is higher than we perhaps think, and much of it has sunk to the cores of various bodies. So I was just suggesting ordinary decay of radioactive minerals, rather than full-blown reactors. It bothers me a little that we keep finding more "warm" bodies and have to keep thinking up individual explanations. Of course, Ocaam's razor is a guide, not a law- sometimes the more complicated explanation is correct <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Perhaps a good test of rival hypotheses will come with more information of bodies in the outer solar system that aren't gravitationally stressed as many small moons are (e.g. Enceladus).

3488 · Jul 19, 2007

Sorry jaxtraw. I mis understood what you were saying, being a bit of a numbskull today. Good point about the supply of radiactive materials & I do think that passing nearby supernovae must be the source. Apparently about 2 million years ago, Mirzam / Beta Canis Majoris passed only 32 light years away & during that period shone as the brightest star in Earth's night skies, around magnitude -4.4, or about as bright as Venus (back then, Sirius was only of about the fifth magnitude & that Saiph / Kappa Orionis was in second place about magnitude -3. It was a time of very bright stars). This proves that powerful stars do sometimes cross paths with our Sun. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

CalliArcale · Jul 19, 2007

This is utterly fascinating! I hadn't even dreamed it might be possible that Charon could have geysers. Charon and Pluto seem curiously dissimilar -- to think that a planet (even a dwarf one) might be less active than its largest satellite is amazing. I am getting seriously impatient for New Horizons to reach Pluto. I'll be a wreck by 2015. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

3488 · Jul 19, 2007

Could not agree with you more CalliArcale. It is far toooooooo long a wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What must now happen IMO is that in the mean time the following should happen. 1). Hubble Space Telescope to make observations at each opportunity. 2). As above with Spitzer Space Telescope. 3). As above also with Keck, etc with adaptive optics. Also Eris, Quaoar & Orcus too. Pluto is a strange one. Firstly it has the greatest albedo variations of any body in the solar system, with the possible exception of Iapetus. Also Pluto appears to be covered with radiation darkened / reddened methane ice. I wonder if that is masking any potential activity?? It is strange if we do find that Pluto is as dead as a dinosaur, yet Charon is active. I find that very hard to believe, yet it might turn out to be true. Could Radar signals not be bounced off them (I suppose its too far, otherwise the same would have been done for 1 Ceres, 2 Pallas, 4 Vesta, etc). However, you are correct, Pluto & Charon are very dissimilar. I have a sneaky suspicion that both are active, but with Charon, it is easier to detect. Of course, not only the long wait, but also such a short visit, by New Horizons. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> Check back later, I will generate some encounter sims & will post them on this thread, or the New Horizons Update one on M & L, as that is probably more appropriate. There is a lot to look forward too. Hopefully very soon, Mars Phoenix Lander will be safely on its way & land successfully in the Martian arctic, DAWN hopefully will leave without incident in September, of course the MERs, MRO, Mars Express, Venus Express, Cassini are still performing superbly, MESSENGER encounters Mercury in January, showing 45% of the unimaged hemisphere that was missed by Marinwer <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

robnissen · Jul 19, 2007

But the wait for New Horizons, is still too long. Yes, but. Considering the Perils-of-Pauline status of a mission to Pluto, on-off-changed-on-off-on, and then considering that we managed to hit the lauch window to be able to use a Jupiter-gravity assist to take 3 years off the mission. And considering if it had taken 3 years longer, the atmosphere might have been frozen out by the time we got there, I reckon I can wait until 2015. It could have been a LOT fricken worse. Edit: I find it slightly ironic, that in a post about a planet that is no longer a planet, I became a planet. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

MeteorWayne · Jul 19, 2007

And apparently, and ironic planet <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Congrats. Do you have rings? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jul 20, 2007

Hi Rob, yes congrats for reaching planetary status!!!!! Hi MeteorWayne, probably sees plenty if he has had too many bevvies <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> As promised. From this post onwards are the sims for the Pluto system encounter. Shows how swift the encounter is. I vonder if Charon could be creating the Plutonian equivalent of Saturn's E-Ring???????? Also I had heard that dust & ice being knocked off Nix & Hydra could also form rings?? Or what about dust & ice being knocked of Dysnomia, forming a ring around Eris??? Just a few thoughts. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

h2ouniverse · Jul 24, 2007

Hi Andrew and all, Back from vacation! I was elated to see this reminder of Charon's status as one of the more and more numerous Solar System places where liquid water is possible/probable. That this is ammonia+water mix is not that of an issue. I posted sometimes ago on this intriguing trend towards cores warmer or less solid than expected, on many bodies (Mercury, the Moon, Ceres, Enceladus, Dione...) May I participate to the brainstorm? 1) a very low heat flow is needed to keep a layer of liquid water in depth, under an icy crust (few tenths of W/m2) 2) It seems that many satellite bodies start with highly elliptical orbits. Tidal effects tend to circularize orbits. An Outer System object that is differentiated rock+H2O should have at a given time a rock/water/H20ice structure, with a very thick ocean. So able to dissipate in distortion a large part of the tidal effect produced by the elliptical orbit. This means a huge part of the tidal energy is used to heat the satellite rather rather than accelerating the body. (unlike for Earth-Moon couple, where only about 1e12W out of about 1e17W is dissipated in Earth "shallow" oceans, the rest accelerating the Moon). Can't this bring a lot more energy at the beginning, thus increasing the duration needed to completely solidify the body? 3) Outer system bodies received huge energy by collisions with other bodies. Absorption of kinetic energy by these small/light bodies should result in more heat density addition 4) A close swing-by, assumed relatively common in Kuiper Belt, should logically result in a very large distortion of a rock/water/H20ice body with a thick ocean, i.e storage of energy Best regards.

MeteorWayne · Jul 24, 2007

Only thing I have to argue with a bit here is the close swing by thing (your point 4). Any interaction between objects would be extremely^3 rare. The objects are much further apart than in the asteroid belt, and even they are all very far apart at this age of the solar system. MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

h2ouniverse · Jul 24, 2007

Hi MW, You are right, 4) goes certainly too far. In general, what I meant is that as soon as you become a body with large liquid layers, you become very deformable and so more prone to transform orbital/gravitational/kinetic energy into heat. A kind of virtuous circle. Best regards.

MeteorWayne · Jul 24, 2007

Yes, I really liked that point, one which I hadn't thought about in much detail before. Thanx for the Brainstorming, just please don't storm over thge UK right now <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jul 25, 2007

Good points. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am sure that this will rumble on until New Horizons arrive. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Pluto moon Charon producing ice geysers???????

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