POLL - The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

[doublehelix]

So, when I was a kid I loved watching Project UFO on TV, which was based on Project Blue Book (my brother and I especially liked the whole "Ezekiel's Wheel" bit in the opening credits). The other day, my boyfriend and I were talking about Close Encounters, trying to figure out what the different "kinds" are. Turns out in 1972, a scale of measurement was established for alien encounters:

• When a UFO is sighted, it is called an encounter of the first kind.
• When evidence is collected, it is known as an encounter of the second kind.
• When contact is made with extraterrestrials, it is the third kind.
• Abduction, is the fourth kind. This encounter has been the most difficult to document, obviously.

Apparently, the new movie, The Fourth Kind, talks about, well, the fourth kind! Alien abductions in (the middle of nowhere) Nome, Alaska, where since the 60s, a disproportionate number of the population has been reported missing every year.

The movie stars Milla Jovovich, playing a psychologist who videotapes sessions with traumatized patients and in process discovers some crazy disturbing evidence of alien abduction. Kind of like District 9, they mix archival footage and original dramatic footage, and the movie showcases revelations of multiple witnesses. Their accounts of being visited by alien figures are freakily similar, the validity of which is investigated throughout the film.

I am pretty interested in seeing this film - love Milla Jovovich (I especially liked her in The Fifth Element and then Zoolander), and the alien thing is definitely a hook for me. I've never met anyone abducted or anything, but it is intriguing.

-dh

 

[montylc2001]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

You are approached by strange creatures, subdued, paralyzed and taken aboard a strange craft. You become dimly aware of procedures, being poked, prodded, things inserted into your body that stay after the experience. When you come to, did it happen or not? Then as you go back to your life hunting Seals on pack ice with the other Polar Bears, you slowly forget it happened.

 

[J_M_Weikle]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

This question and poll is not a valid scientific arguement, from the standpoint there isn't a way of testing the validity of the question or the aspect of the question.

This question is based entire upon 'belief' of an individual or upon 'conjecture'; which is to say opinion based.

The question coud read:

Do you believe that Santa Claus rides in a sleigh with 8 reindeer to put presents under a Christmas tree?

Sure, it could happen but probably not.

No wonder the general population is mis-informed upon the sciences or aspects of science when questions are presented to the population that are bogus.

 

[drwayne]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

"This question and poll is not a valid scientific arguement"

I think you should think of this as an "opinion poll", not a scientific argument.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[disownedsky]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Well, I am confused. What is the difference between "it's possible" and "I have my doubts." For me, it's almost always both.

 

[netdragon]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Obviously, the following is a personal experience and isn't scientifically useful:

I have been aboard an "ET ship". When I saw it coming over the mountains in Vermont between Bennington and Rutland, I pulled over my car and in a flash it was over my head. I looked up into a very bright light and the next moment I was aboard the ship looking out at my body below me, frozen in time. Clearly, I was out of body and time was moving much much faster than on earth below. I then saw the beings' reflections in the glass. They were all lined up on the opposite side of a table (oak conference table - I'm guessing it looked like our type of table to make me feel more comfortable). I was shown the ship, talked to, and then let go. I don't remember the whole conversation, but I remember that some of it was pretty upsetting info about how we are destroying the earth, etc, and a few demonstrations of our highest potential alternate futures where I was actually experiencing it, like virtual reality and felt all the emotions of everyone on the world - pretty intense. However beyond that they made me feel relatively comfortable and I wasn't scared. The ship itself was sparse and boring. What caused them to seek me out? Not sure. I'm telepathic (better at sending than receiving, just like I'm better at talking than listening ;-) ) and had broadcasted some telepathic messages at one point (broadcasting is a bad idea unless you want a ton of beings to start communicating with you for a while, which is very distracting). Around that time they had connected to me. Perhaps that's why they chose to come visit me.

Anyway, a ship comes by (different ship than the first one) whenever I'm in a more rural area and usually just hangs around for a while. If I travel a long distance, it usually takes a couple days for them to hone in. Now that I'm in one of the metro areas in the country I don't see them around except when I leave the city. The pattern gives me the idea at least these avoid cities for some reason.

Although that first time the ship (different ship) looked more solid. This other ship is almost invisible and bends the light behind it like glass. Therefore, you can see it by walking around where I think its edges are and seeing subtle differences in how it refracts the light from trees, stars, etc. I haven't tried to touch it because it has always been at least 20 feet overhead. I can sometimes hear a humming and see energy zapping around where it is if I am not distracted by other things. One time I saw it start to move off into the sky and that gave an even more awe-inspiring effect than when I just walked around. The trees looked like they were bending as it passed upwards.

One time they walked over to me in my father's backyard (years ago, home from college). The "ETs" were only partially opaque (like they were made of only semi-solid energy) and walking ON TOP of the grass (they were so light, they only pushed it down a tiny bit). it wasn't opaque like see-through skin - I mean like if you took a video and then turned down the opacity to 75% and could see what's behind it. I could move my hand through them but their bodies stung like a continuous electric shock.

Anyway, this all leads me to believe that they are not physical like us. Because I went out of body to go on their ship, and because of their partial opacity in the backyard of my father's house, but because the other ship was visible, I'm guessing that they can take a more solid form when they want to but that their natural form is more energy-like. In fact, based on what I've seen, I'm not entirely sure what's different between them and what people call spirits.

 

[upriver]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

I talked to this mom of 3 daughters.

She told me this story of how her daughters(7 to 10) woke up one morning and told her how they had been looking at the earth from space. They drew a picture. How, they had been brought aboard some craft?

I tried to figure out how this could be. She was just a country gal. Didnt know anything about ufo's or anything.
Horses, pigs, and chickens little ranch in the country. TV only got 2 channels when it was on.

Still a mystery to this day. Girls seem normal 25 years later.

 

[Wellington1114]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

I heard reports that the people who had more violent encounters reported having transplants done to them and then when they went to get X rayed the physicians actually found outlines of an unnatural device. I don't know how true it is, but thats where abductions cross the line.

 

[SpecialEd]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Sure I can accept the existance of non-human intelligences (NTIs for you Abyss fans), we've seen varying levels of them here, called 'cetaceans'. They're in the water, you see, not land.

Now, as far as 'believing' in the stories about people being 'taken away', I don't 'believe' in anything, just accept what is currently known, namely various laws/theories etc., until something comes along to change that.

So, until you show me ET's glowing finger, I'm giving the finger back. :lol:

 

[RobM1]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Anyone here remember Betty & Barney Hill of N.H. incident. Another case remembered I believe was of Travis Walton incident. Case Closed.

 

[lwblack]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

"This question and poll is not a valid scientific arguement"

I think you should think of this as an "opinion poll", not a scientific argument.

Welcome to the forum!

The other side to that coin. Even after all the pictures and videos and moon rocks, there are still people that do not believe man ever sit foot on the moon and that it's all made up data. Ask yourself this and then consider the first man that crossed an ocean believed to be flat. Do you think within the confines of the box or do you think perhaps the box's dimensions are forever changing and can think outside the box prior to it being enlarged? As for their being alien space craft? You can bet the farm, the home and every cent that is on the planet on that one because THAT is a sure win!

 

[Geoduck2]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

I put No Way. Not because I think it's impossible. Just that so far I've not seen any hard evidence otherwise. Lots of anecdotal stories. Lots of third hand reports. But actual proof; No. I think it was Sagan that said: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. At this point I've seen nothing irrefutable from anyone I would call credible.

Not that I wouldn't LOVE to be proven wrong.

 

[HollyCow]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

"This question and poll is not a valid scientific argument"

A hypothesis has been put forward. The evidence supporting the hypothesis has been presented. There are discussions about the validly of the hypothesis. This sounds like a scientific argument to me.

Have we been visited? A race of being with technology far superior to our own would be detected by us only if that is what they want. How can we not think they would not have methods and equipment to find out what ever they want about us with us not even knowing they were there. When they knock on our door we will know it.

 

[Spearshaker]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

It wasn't all that long ago that French scientists looked their fellow citizens in the eye and assured them that rocks could not possibly fall from the sky. The simple folk that claimed to have witnessed such events, if not told they were outright crazy, were just too highly excitable, easily confused, superstitious, silly dupes, etc.

Many of the people who claim such abduction episodes are not among those I should like to call fools. You can't test their claims under "repeatable conditions," just as waiting in your backyard for a meteorite to land at your feet, to make such falls "scientific fact," makes no sense. Historically, the fools are proven to be those who, in their fear of being viewed as "unsophisticated," parrot their "middle-of-the-herd" views, handed to them by the updated version of the above-cited, very sophisticated French scientists.

 

[invisible_ghost]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

When I think about alien abductions in the way it is presented I'd have to vote no way. I find a considerable technology gap in the evidence. A flying disc presents the case for a very advanced race with knowledge of physics and the technology to power the craft that is way beyond our capabilities. Then the aliens go medieval on us by poking and prodding?? Don’t think so!! The alien’s medical technology would be completely non-invasive. Scanning machines would tell them everything they needed to know. Even our current medical technology is years ahead of “poking and prodding with implements”. The only tests I can think of that involve poking in current medical procedures is blood tests and biopsy, although I’m sure there’s more. Aside from actual medical procedures and operations, invasive testing is being phased out. If we have MRI and CAT scans, DNA swab tests, then what do the aliens have? It sure isn’t a 7 gauge needle to your arm to get a blood sample or DNA sample LOL!!! No, the alien abduction medical procedures being described are from the view point of a human in the context of his knowledge base, not that of an aliens.

 

[bushwhacker]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

i really have to doubt it. now i dont in any way doubt there are other life forms in the galaxy, or that they have visited earth. its this whole poking and prodding thing. as was stated by others their medical tech has got to be beyond that by now.

 

[jim48]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Shouldn't this poll be in The Unexplained rather than the Science Fiction forum?

 

[ernestborg9]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

They are as real as truth in advertising and fair and responsible lending practices. Oh, and honest politicians!

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

So, when I was a kid I loved watching Project UFO on TV,

An awesome show! I watched it as well.

The other day, my boyfriend and I were talking about Close Encounters, trying to figure out what the different "kinds" are. Turns out in 1972, a scale of measurement was established for alien encounters:

Hynek's classification system. Although, he only started with the first three. The "Fourth" is really included in the third but some people insist on giving it a separate heading because it's so popular nowadays. Oh... and.. err.. don't forget Close Encounters of the Fifth kind... I'll let you look that one up.

The movie stars Milla Jovovich,

That's enough said right there... I'll definitely watch it.

..I've never met anyone abducted or anything, but it is intriguing.-dh

It's an assumption of mine that it is highly probable that nobody else has either. But, there's always the possibility...

(Edit Note: Interestingly enough, shortly after Hynek's book came out, there were proposals to add additional levels. The "Fourth Kind" wasn't just abduction.. it was alien sex and sexual-like experiments and the like. (or, maybe that was the fifth?) Anyway, the point is that it seems the rules change according to cultural interpretation. Not exactly a scientific process there. So, in a decade when some new encounter type is rampaging around teh intrawebz, it'll get its own heading. Hynek's original three are good enough to cover everything so far, IMO, without additions.)

 

[Antwerpo]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

I voted that I have my doubts. As for as our science go those abductions can't have happened. All stories so far are about creatures similar to our species, arms, legs, head, eyes. Why would a creature similar to us travel that far to do experiments. If those abductees had stories about robots I might believe it.

 

[Floridian]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

nah, we all know that the aliens that visit earth die out to our microorganisms... Hey Bob we just arrived at Earth - lets inventory our supplies, 30 years of provisions - check, warp-drive - check, redundant computer and nuclear fusion systems - check, environmental suits - shi-.....

 

[Basketvector]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Aliens always have 2 eyes, 4 limbs, 1 mouth, 1 nose, right? What possible explanation could there be for this except that they were invented by humans? So that eliminates like 99.99% of sightings. In contrast, astral energy beings seem totally reasonable and valid.

 

[spacefire]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

I thought alien abduction reports have been explained as the onset of lucid dreaming, the REM phase of sleep but when you are still conscious and you see lights and hear noises and feel a presence, and if you don't know what is going on can get spooked.

 

[maz79]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

What I find amazingly odd is how starting with just the third comment down in response to the poll is the following comment:

This question and poll is not a valid scientific arguement, from the standpoint there isn't a way of testing the validity of the question or the aspect of the question.

This question is based entire upon 'belief' of an individual or upon 'conjecture'; which is to say opinion based.

This strikes me as a supremely irrational response. It's an OPINION poll! Of COURSE it's opinion based! Why would it have to be posed as a "valid scientific argument"?

And why would anyone's first reaction to an opinion poll be to invoke science to attack the question to begin with?

 

[lwblack]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

I voted that I have my doubts. As for as our science go those abductions can't have happened. All stories so far are about creatures similar to our species, arms, legs, head, eyes. Why would a creature similar to us travel that far to do experiments. If those abductees had stories about robots I might believe it.

Whoever said those doing the abducting was not robots from another far-away world? Don't we send robot 'probes' out to other planets?