Power Generation In Space

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dragon04

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Perhaps this topic belongs in Technology, and if a Moderator feels the need to put it there, that's fine.<br /><br />The thought ocurred to me that we take the wrong approach to generation of power for the ISS and any other applicable spacecraft.<br /><br />Rather than constructing and deploying expensive solar panels for electrical power generation for primary power, why do we not use a more simple and economical form of power generation.<br /><br />Think about the good old, relatively cheap, time tested humble generator.<br /><br />All one needs is a rotor turning within a stator, and we can produce electricity. Relatively low RPM wind generators do a pretty good job at generating electricity in a reliable manner.<br /><br />Now. In a wind generator, the fan blades are driven by wind and cause the rotator to turn and induce current in the stator to supply electricity.<br /><br />Now I ask you to think backwards.... Rather than the rotator turning, let's put two arms on the stator, use a stationary "rotor", and put rocket motors or even ion thrusters on the ends of those arms to turn the stator instead of the rotor to generate electricity.<br /><br />All we have to do is overcome the intitial force needed to get the stator rotating, and then provide sufficient momentum to overcome the friction loss through the bearings that's required to provide a steady 100 RPMS.<br /><br />Imagine a spacecraft or the ISS as a tube to simplify. One generator on the "fore" end and another on the "aft" end turning in opposing directions to maintain a stable orientation.<br /><br />The rotating stator itself does not experience the same resistance that it would in atmosphere; it doesnt have to move though air.<br /><br />This would be especially beneficial (and less reliant on radioactive power sources) at distances where solar panels cannot provide adequate power generation.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>
 
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no_way

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This topic belongs under "free energy" or "Phenomena". What you are describing would be a perpeetum mobile, or what are "free energy" devices like people call them nowadays.<br />The catch is, your system would violate the principle of conservation of energy, which put in simple words, means that you cant make useable energy out of nothing.<br />In your case, the spinning would gradually slow down to a stop as soon as you connect a simple lightbulb to your generator and thats that.
 
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nyarlathotep

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For the love of god don't put it in the space business forum.
 
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holmec

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a rocket motor or a compressed gas system would probably work. But the problem might be that its for a short time because rocket motors don't last long. <br /><br />Ion thrusters use electricity to make thrust. So that would be just a circular system. That would waste electricity rather than create it, because it would use more electricity than it creates.<br /><br />The Italian space program made electricity by using orbital mechanics, a tether and the earth magnetic field. I am sure that that would degrade the orbit of the craft though.<br /><br />Other viable sources in space are the sun and perhaps a nuclear reactor.<br /><br />You can also increase the efficiency of solar panels with a concave reflector, works like a lens. <br /><br />The other thing you can do as well is make an electicity power plant in space and have it transfer power by means of a laser.<br /><br />One more option would be bacterial. Have bacteria make the electricity, but that would require food for them, and by the time you finished everything, you have an ecological environment on a ship....Which wouldn't be too bad if you had a crew. Maybe life itself could make enough electricity to sustain itself......sounds like a sci-fi novel.<br /><br />Inevitably you need to get energy from something, whether it be chemical, biologica, nuclear (own or sun). <br /><br />I heard the reason for the pricy solar panels is that the demand went up on them and not enough silicon is being produced. So you might make a buck on the short term in investing in companies that provide the silicon....at least till there is more silicon produced. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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mrmorris

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<font color="yellow">"All we have to do is overcome the intitial force needed to get the stator rotating, and then provide sufficient momentum to overcome the friction loss through the bearings that's required to provide a steady 100 RPMS. "</font><br /><br />What you have forgotten (or didn't know) is that an alternator produces resistance proportional to the amount of electrical demand placed on it. Put another way, the more power being pulled, the more resistance it has to turning. Go out to your car, start it up and let it idle. Listen to the sound of the engine... then turn on the headlights. You'll immediately hear the engine start working harder because the alternator resistance just kicked up a notch.<br /><br />You spoke of windmills. If you take a look at sites where people have built their own -- there will generally be a warning note somewhere in the instructions on raising the tower for the first time. They'll tell you to twist the power leads from the alternator together before raising the tower. This is to put an artificial load on it. Otherwise, the windmill will have *very* low resistance and even a stiff breeze is liable to start the blades spinning fast enough to be dangerous while you're working on it.
 
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MeteorWayne

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That windmill tidbit is very interesting. <br />I never would have thought of that, which may have been painful! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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no_way

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>That windmill tidbit is very interesting. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Its pretty obvious. Ever turned an electric motor spindle by hand ? now do it with wires shorted, much more difficult to point of being impossible depending on motor type.<br />Works with any small DC or squirrel-cage or PMSM motor.<br />
 
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MeteorWayne

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Ive never tried it with the wires shorted, and I've been in the electronics biz for over 30 years!<br />It just never occurred to me.<br /><br />Ya learn something new every day!! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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