Presentation Of New Launch Method

[yavuzbasturk]

Hi,<br />My name is Yavuz Basturk, i am software developer at Turkey.<br />I have a patent of idea which is alternative to rockets to carry kargo to the orbit. <br />It is more advantageous compared to classical rocket ships from the <br />point of view of cost and security. <br /><br />Detailed three A4 description can be found on http://www.yablam.org/sum_eng.htm <br /> <br />Yavuz BASTURK<br /><br />i paste description of system from web page<br />------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />THE PRESENTATION OF YABLAM<br /><br /><br />Yablam is a new method which was developed for carrying utility cargo to the orbit in a safe way with a little cost. It is more advantageous compared to classical rocket ships from the point of view of cost and security. Yablam stands for “Yavuz Ba&#351;türk Launch Method”.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Yablam, is composed of lengthening a hose to 185 km above the surface, carrying weight of the hose by sharing by intermediate stations and rising the utility cargo via the hose in lift cabins. System, briefly, aims to launch rocket ships, which carries cargo, in a horizontal way, not in a vertical way, to the space from a launcher which was made 185 kilometers above. Therefore there will not be the air friction problem, it can be reached to orbit speed with a very little fuel.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Elements of the system<br /><br />· Fuel Hose<br /><br />Rocket ships do not storage the whole of the fuel ,which will be consumed, in their own structure. Fuel continuously pumped to all of the rocket ships in the system from the tanks on the surface by pumps which run by electrical energy. The fuel hose will probably be produced from Carbon-Epoxy material which has got optimum values and is available easily and the cheapest material in the market. There are alternatives such as Kevlar/dyneema rope. Another function of the fuel hose is that it is also the lift rope. Lift cabin

 

[najab]

What you're describing is, in essence, a space elevator. The problem with your plan is that the top of the 'hose' is only 185km high. In order for the base of a space elevator to remain fixed over one point on the ground, the centre of mass needs to be at geo-stationary altitude (about 34,000km). With the top of your pipe at only 200km or so, the bottom of the hose would drag along the ground at about 2000km/h. <img src="/images/icons/shocked.gif" />

 

[grooble]

Reading this, i thought of an idea.<br /><br />What if you had a balloon say 100,000ft up, or two balloons. And they carried the fuel for the rocket. Now a big pipe ran down to the rocket and it was pumped in as the rocket ascended.<br /><br />So the rocket takeoff weight would be reduced and it would need less power to lift off as it doesn't have the weight of its own fuel to carry. So as the rocket ascends its pumped with fuel to allow it to continue up, and it could even travel further as it could get top up.<br /><br />The rockets weight will increase as its filled back up with fuel say 80,000 feet in the air or something, but it will have already taken off and have momentum and speed and less atmosphere to fight, so i bet it could go faster and faster and go a lot further.<br /><br />And it will be 80,000ft in the air, already travelling fast and have a complete tank of fuel, or half or whatever is needed. I wonder what the range / speed on a rocket like that could be.<br />

 

[yavuzbasturk]

I created pictures of launch scenario with my idea.<br /><br />Scenario parameters ;<br /> - we have 6 payloads<br /> - to make pictures easy we use 180km launch target instead of 185km high.<br /> - to make pictures easy we use 4 station and 45km hose piece between stations.<br /> - to make pictures easy we use 4 pumps total in system<br /> - combining and separating hose and station at ground cost 3 minute time<br /> - Filling fuel tank of lift cabin at 185km cost 5 minute of time<br /> - Ascending speed of lift cabins is 90km/h<br /> - Ascending and descending speed of stations is 135km/h<br /> - Full scenario cost 05 hour and 20 minutes of time.<br /> - text of changed objects in pictures is red color.<br /><br />http://www.yablam.org/H-O_hose_cross_section.GIF<br />this is picture of hose cross section if we use H-O as a fuel.<br /><br />http://www.yablam.org/water_hose_cross_section.GIF<br />this is picture of hose cross section if we use water as a fuel.<br /><br />we start scenario ;<br /><br />http://www.yablam.org/yablam_launch_00.GIF Step(00) Time = 00:00<br />Yablam is ready and waiting to be launched. All hose is full of fuel.<br />Electric plant ready to produce electric. stations are waiting at ground.<br />Payload cabins are waiting at ground too.<br /><br />http://www.yablam.org/yablam_launch_01.GIF Step(01) Time = 00:03<br />Station #1 combined with hose and waiting to launch.<br />Payload #1 is combined to hose in 3 minutes. <br />Payload will ascend with station #1.<br /><br />http://www.yablam.org/yablam_launch_02.GIF Step(02) Time = 00:23<br />Station #1 ascending with 135km/h. Rea

 

[Leovinus]

If you attempt to pump water 185 km uphill, the pressure of the water at the bottom would be equivalent to the pressure at the bottom of an ocean 185 km deep. I'd like to see a hose withstand that pressure and a pump that could pump against it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[najab]

He actually thought of that. The lift would be done in smaller sections, with a pump every few hundred metres.

 

[Leovinus]

Ah, then it's not a 150 km long hose. Now you have to lift all those pumps too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[najab]

Plus the weight of a 185km tall column of propellant.

 

[Leovinus]

Here's an idea I like better. Build a big hole in the ground. Get a big rubber band stretched across the opening. Put the payload in the center and pull it down. Let go and slingshot the payload into space. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">" Build a big hole in the ground..."</font><br /><br />Could you post some pictures of your launch system please?

 

[Leovinus]

Like this except bigger and vertical. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[larper]

Plus, what counteracts the downward force being applied to the hose from the fuel? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Vote </font><font color="#3366ff">Libertarian</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[Leovinus]

Plus, what keeps the hose cool for the cryogenics? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[larper]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Build a big hole in the ground. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Of what material would the hole be made? You cannot just propose building a hole without telling us what you are making it out of. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Vote </font><font color="#3366ff">Libertarian</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[Leovinus]

Hey, I'm just the idea man. I leave the nitpicking details to the engineers. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[najab]

How much dirt would there be in a hole 100m by 100m by 1km deep?<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />None! If there was dirt in it it wouldn't be a hole!

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"How much dirt would there be..."</font><br /><br />Hey -- maybe we can use the dirt from Leo's hole to build the ramp for grooble's road to space? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[Leovinus]

Watch your language! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[tom_hobbes]

Road to space. Hmmm. Not a bad idea...<br /><br />What's wrong with building an equatorial platform which reaches into space? Use levels of pulleys to hoist craft up to the top and once there give them a little push off.... Voila, orbit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#339966"> I wish I could remember<br /> But my selective memory<br /> Won't let me</font><font size="2" color="#99cc00"> </font><font size="3" color="#339966"><font size="2">- </font></font><font size="1" color="#339966">Mark Oliver Everett</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"Use levels of pulleys to..."</font><br /><br />Hey! <b>Simple Engines</b>. Shoulda thunk of it earlier. Forget the pulleys though. What we need is an Archimedes Screw on the equator that reaches up to GEO. Simply turn the screw to lift the cargo to orbit. Easy!

 

[tom_hobbes]

Now we's thinkin! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#339966"> I wish I could remember<br /> But my selective memory<br /> Won't let me</font><font size="2" color="#99cc00"> </font><font size="3" color="#339966"><font size="2">- </font></font><font size="1" color="#339966">Mark Oliver Everett</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[yavuzbasturk]

another important question is what is ratio of (cost of fuel) / (cost of hardware) for a standart rocket.<br />if rocket hardware itself cost 200 milyon dollar and 500 ton fuel cost 50 million dolar, this is good for yablam idea. but if rocket hardware cost 50 miilon dollar and 500 ton fuel cost 200 million dollar, this is bad for yablam idea because main cost of yablam launch is fuel, not hardware.<br /><br />reasons that MAY be reasonf of this idea being feasible ;<br /><br />- if you use standart rocket, you can launch 2 or 3 payload at a time (10-15 ton payload per a launch mission). at my idea you can launch tens or hundreds of payloads.<br /><br />- if you use rocket, rocket will be destroyed totally. in my idea system can be used many times years long in theory. so cost of launch missions will be ONLY fuel and electric producing cost.<br /><br />- to produce new classic rocket, you spend few months and hudrend millions dollars. in yablam idea relaunching can be done in weeks i think and you only store more fuel and create lift cabins as needed amount.<br /><br />- maybe research will proof that ; yablam idea is feasible only when we launch minimum 20 payload (or minimum 100 ton) at a time. if we decrease launch prices you can find customer for 20 payloads i think.<br /><br />- think countries that dont have space industry now. is creating rocket tehchnology or creating yablam technology is easiser and cheaper for them ?<br /><br />- a space hotel may be thousands of tons. launching thousands of tons to orbit with standart rockets, you need to build hundreds of rocket and this will not be feasible. with yablam you can launch 1.000 of payload (each 5 ton) is possible in 1.000 x 30 min = 26 days. human needs many facilities at orbital each is thousands tons. (mars ship maybe, moon hotel, astreoid mining ship,..)<br /><br />- yablam is safer. fuel stored at ground in safety tanks. a possible explosion at station rockets high probbaly will not kill humans in lift cabins. lift cabi

 

[yavuzbasturk]

keeping hose cold is not easy,<br />so maybe pumping water and converting it to H-O at stations realtime may be solution. hose becomes basic and light in this case. <br />

 

[Leovinus]

In that case, you have to worry about keeping the hose warm. Water freezes when it gets to high altitude. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[yavuzbasturk]

we have electric cable on 185km hose, with electric heating water is easy i belive.