Private Industries place in space

[flyer456654]

First off, this is kinda a shoot off from another post, but once again I am stuck listening to a boring lecture so my mind moves away from the topics at hand and onto...surprise SPACE!!!!

So, me and rcsplinter just had a great conversation about commercial spaceflight. But it got me thinking about the private industry in space in general. Obviously, there are vastly differing opinions, but I think this problem is due to bad definitions. So I am going to break space into 4 sections: LEO, Lunar ventures, Martian ventures, and deep space. I think this is part of people's problem with understanding. They understand the differences of these areas but they lump them all under space and don't separate them in any way shape or form. So here is my personal take on things (soapbox please!)

LEO-
"Nasa has made this probably the most boring thing in the world. It is incredibly routine for them to go up into LEO safely and perform major tasks there (building the ISS)." These are the thoughts of the world on whole. Not only that there are now private satelite companies that can get you there. This portion of space is quite frankly not inspiring. Since all the technology is there and known (for the most part), we should dump this realm of space off to the private industry. Obviously, it is cost prohibitive but there is plenty of profit to be made there (cue SpaceX comment here). Nasa should simply leave this be and forget about doing anything more here in the terms of infrastructure (obviously there is plenty of science left to be done there). Nasa should no longer be the innovator here but should rather be the costumer. As far as I am concerned, the government should no longer fund any NASA development here and should rather help fund private industries here.

Lunar Ventures:
These are incredibly cost prohibitive. The moon can be HIGHLY profitable though. Thus this is a great opportunity for NASA to help develop things and to partner with commercial entities. These partnerships will eventually be turned over to the corporations after a source of profit appears (and NASA receives a nice ROI on their investment, can you say funding for other projects?).

I'll go head and lump the next two, Martian Ventures and Deep Space should still be in the sole realm of NASA. It is simply FAR to cost prohibitive for the private industry to attempt to do this on its own. It is also far to risky for any corporation to partner with NASA. This area is the place where NASA was designed for. They were designed to push the envelope and this is where they can do it. NASA has made LEO boring, and for the most part Lunar ventures relatively boring. This has allowed the private industry to take a serious look at developing profitable companies in these areas. They now have a taller order to fill to make Mars missions and deep space missions boring to us. This I believe is still at the minimum 50 years away.

These are my thoughts on how NASA should be used and where the private industry should be used. Comments, feel free to disagree and I will attempt to argue with you.

 

[Yuri_Armstrong]

I agree mostly about LEO. For now, that is where most commercial spaceflight should stay. Sub-orbital flights, orbits around the Earth, and space hotels are all great ways for the private industries to start off in space. I still think that NASA should keep at least one space station there, if anything to use as a "hub" or launch site to manned missions to the moon and beyond. It can also be used to train astronauts and carry out experiments. I think that anything and everything about space is fascinating, and the fact that we've gotten to where it's now routine to go into LEO is quite an accomplishment. But you're right, if NASA wants to inspire the nation they need to send manned missions to celestial bodies, not just earth orbit.

As for the moon, it will take some time before private industries can set up there. The first outpost will likely be the robotic base that Japan plans to have set up in 2020: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20006075-1.html

After that, it will likely be a joint international venture to set up a small outpost crewed by 2 or 3 people at first, then later on maybe up to 6 or so. Once they figure out that they can sustain themselves and a manned lunar base is viable, then we will begin to see more advances being made.

Obama said there will be a Mars mission in the 2030's. I certainly hope so. But for now it looks like we be staying in Earth orbit and the moon.

Also, I think you're missing a category, asteroid ventures. An asteroid mission has been planned for 2025, and there are commercial benefits there aside from just space tourism.

I do think that NASA should be involved with public-private cooperation to produce the best results. Let the private companies push the frontier, and let NASA go beyond it.

 

[SteveCNC]

I do agree that LEO is a good place to start although I also think private enterprise could possibly make a go of the moon if they can establish control over some water bearing areas and begin seperation and filtration , then they can begin producing hydrogen and oxygen for sale on the moon . I imagine there will be a lot of profit to be made if you can establish a sustainable system that can do all that . If they can create a power grid using a large solar array at one of the poles they can sell power . After that it's time to start into the real estate business because there's no more obstacles to colonization other than the taxi ride there which can go private as well .

 

[flyer456654]

I just have a quick question. Yuri-Why would we want NASA to keep a Space Station in orbit when we have just stated that private industry can do it cheaper? Why not have NASA commission and lease a Space Station from a private venture?

I'm very happy that everyone agrees that LEO should no longer be NASA's domain and that they should push the limits. I feel that we are on the front step of greatness as a civilization and it is certainly an interesting time to be alive!

 

[trailrider]

Part of the problem with the perception by the public of ISS/LEO is that it has become "operations" rather than exploration. This is a natural, if unfortunate (from the standpoint of public interest and hence support), progression. Unless something goes wrong "ops" are boring...and, hopefully, stay that way. After all, when traffic is driving down the freeway, flowing smoothly, no one pays any attention (other than...again, hopefully...paying attention to the act of driving) to the traffic. But let an accident happen, even in the opposite lane on a divided highway, which SHOULD NOT generate any slowdown, and a "gaper's block" developes, as people rubberneck to see what happened!

I have said, many times before, that the business of NASA or any government is exploration! Once exploration has progressed to the phase of "routine" operations, then commercial interests needs to be brought up as quickly as possible...given that there has to be a profitable motive for commercial interest to get involved. The ISS has been designated as a "National Laboratory", which makes it much more difficult to sell or lease out the station.

Should NASA lease a space station from commercial interests? Not unless they "sell" the ISS and then lease back space in it for scientific purposes that aren't profitable enough for commercial enterprise.

As to bringing commercial space interests to the Moon, I would certainly favor that just as soon as some profitable objectives can be identified that will encourage investment by private sources. However, until we return to the Moon and set up, at least, one or more permanently occupied bases, that just won't happen. I would point out that if we, the U.S. do not do this, even with international partners, then others...especially China, Japan, India, and possibly a European consortium...WILL! If this happens, America can become the Portugal of the space age, ceding our leadership to others, just as happened to Portugal in the 15th and 16th Centuries on Earth!

Pray this doesn't happen! And get ahold of your Congressmen and Senators and encourage them in polite but strong terms to fund a RETURN TO THE MOON! The Moon MUST become our next objective beyond LEO, if we are to develop the techniques and the knowledge of human physiology under long-term reduced-g to enable us to then go to Mars and near-earth asteroids, and beyond. Right now we do NOT have this knowledge! (And I say this as a founding member of the Mars Society!)

Ad LEO! AD LUNA! Ad Ares! Ad Astra!

 

[Yuri_Armstrong]

I just have a quick question. Yuri-Why would we want NASA to keep a Space Station in orbit when we have just stated that private industry can do it cheaper? Why not have NASA commission and lease a Space Station from a private venture?

I'm very happy that everyone agrees that LEO should no longer be NASA's domain and that they should push the limits. I feel that we are on the front step of greatness as a civilization and it is certainly an interesting time to be alive!

Because, a space station has other uses aside from just science experiments like we use today. A NASA/international space station can be used to train astronauts, be used as a "hub" in space where ships can dock after returning from deep space, an orbital construction facility, and of course still be used as a science laboratory to carry out more experiments about long term living in zero-g.

The private agencies can have space stations, but I'm saying NASA should still maintain a permanent place in LEO through a space station.

 

[scottb50]

I just have a quick question. Yuri-Why would we want NASA to keep a Space Station in orbit when we have just stated that private industry can do it cheaper? Why not have NASA commission and lease a Space Station from a private venture?

I don't know what industry would work in the ISS. They do medical and other research. I would think G-8 service anywhere in the World at any time or place would be the place to start. Large, manned Stations with switching and steerable transponders. Three Stations could cover the globe with Two Supplemental transponder platforms, placed in polar orbits and serviced from the three main stations.

The three Stations would be manned and regularly serviced and the facility can grow to allow beyond orbit vehicles, lunar, asteroid or Mars vehicles could be assembled from Modules.