Ptolemy and his influence in Western Europe

[AukeF]

Hi, I'm doing a research paper on Ptolemy but I'm a bit in the dark if tthe works of Ptolemy were known in Western Europe and the influence of his work in Western Europe between app. 200 - 1300 AD.

What I have learned so far: the original works of Ptolemy in Greek were lost but came to Western Europe (in latin) after they were translated from Arabic (Arabic astronomers had translated his work before from the orginal Greek texts). I'm not really sure when those first -latin- translations were available in Western Europe. The earliest clue I found so far is that his works were used in the Alfonso tables but that then we are already in the 13th century. So was there any use or knowlegde of the works of Ptolemy in Western Europe before that time?

Thanks in advance for you insights!

 

[MeteorWayne]

I don't believe this really belongs here in Space Science and Astronomy, but will leave it here for now. It seems best placed in the Live Science (See link above) "History" forum.

 

[silylene]

MW, I think that this request would get a lot more traction here in SSA, than in Live Science, which unfortunately gets very little traffic after de-Pluckification and being separated away.

In addition to Ptolemy's model for the solar system, per your question: "was there any use or knowlegde of the works of Ptolemy in Western Europe before that time?"
As I recall,
1. Ptolemy wrote the book on geography that was very widely known and used, and i think became available in Latin after about 1450. But it was probably available in Greek centuries earlier.
2. Ptolemy named several constellations, and I thought these names and locations were in general knowledge since the Romans.
3. Ptolemy named quite a few bright stars, and I thought these names and locations were in general knowledge since the Romans.

However, I do recall that Ptolemy was re-translated from Arabic into Greek first, and his books had circulated among the Greek literature for centuries - perhaps 1100 or 1200 or earlier [edit: 9th century!] - before the retranslated Greek versions were translated into Latin by the Catholic monks or by the Byzantines. Since Greece is part of Europe, and some wise scholars did know Greek in western Europe, I would suggest perhaps you should try to investigate which West European scholars may have read the re-translated Greek version of Ptolemy, before it had been translated to Latin.

Greek (original) -> Arabic - > Greek (retranslated) -> Latin

 

[silylene]

I knew I should've googled this first. Yes, his works were available in re-translated Greek centuries before they were available in Latin, in Western Europe. Clearly anyone who could read Greek had access to Ptolemy since the 9th century, at least in the Vatican archives.

Here is a link to an article and a picture of a Greek copy of Ptolemy's Almagest from the 9th century, within the Vatican library. http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/vatican/math.html

The link also states: "In about 1160 a very literal translation of the Almagest was made directly from the Greek by an unknown translator in Sicily. The version had little circulation, but in the early fifteenth century this manuscript, the only known complete copy, came into the hands of the great Florentine book collector Coluccio Salutati."

And
"The most important medieval Latin translation of the Almagest, which is found in many manuscripts, was made from the Arabic in Spain in 1175 by Gerard of Cremona, the most prolific of all medieval translators from Arabic into Latin."

Geographica:
"In Greek Parchment Ninth century": "Ptolemy's Handy Tables, intended for practical computation, were edited by Theon of Alexandria in the fourth century A.D. and became, with various modifications, the basis of later astronomical tables in Greek, Arabic, and Latin. The Handy Tables allow the calculation of solar, lunar, and planetary positions and eclipses of the sun and moon far more rapidly than the tables included in the Almagest. This early and elegant uncial manuscript is well-known for its illumination, which appears to descend from a prototype in late antiquity as can clearly be seen in this map of the constellations, drawn elegantly in white against the dark blue of the night sky, showing the northern part of the zodiac."

And the first Latin verson: 1465

9th Century version of The Almagest, from the Vatican Library, in Greek:

 

[MeteorWayne]

MW, I think that this request would get a lot more traction here in SSA, than in Live Science, which unfortunately gets very little traffic after de-Pluckification and being separated away.

Sadly, you are correct, which is why I left it. LS has been killed just as surely as Pluck would have.

 

[AukeF]

Many thanks, Petet, this helped me a lot. Sorry if I posted it in the wrong forum section!