Russian Mock Mars mission to start?

jmilsom · Jul 28, 2006

I read in the afternoon paper today, a tiny segment stating that the 500-day mock mars mission is now underway. I searched the net and could only find a couple of old articles. One from SDC and another from BBC from late 2004 saying that it was planned. Does anyone have any further info on this? http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/russia_500days_041011.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4076421.stm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jul 28, 2006

Has not something similar already been started on the arctic Canadian Island: Devon Island? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

alokmohan · Jul 28, 2006

Please state in details.Certainly interesting.

3488 · Jul 28, 2006

http://members.aol.com/Tanstaaflz/petesmars_Devon.htm Link is above to the Mars testing ground on Devon Island in the arctic islands of Canada. MARS (Mars Arctic Research Station). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

alokmohan · Jul 28, 2006

Viva Zubrin.He is trying for mars for decades.Convincing legislture.He has made head way to NASA policy making.

Swampcat · Jul 28, 2006

"Has not something similar already been started on the arctic Canadian Island: Devon Island?" As I understand it there are major differences between the two projects. One particular difference is that the Devon Island project is not testing closed environmental systems as will be done in the Russian project. The Russian project appears to be more of a study in the isolation of a small group of people in a rather confined space over time whereas the Devon Island project participants will actually go outside and experiment with techniques needed for field studies on Mars. You might say that the Russian project is about the trip there and back while the Devon Island project is about working on the surface. Oh, and of course the Russian project participants won't have to worry about Polar Bears <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

JonClarke · Jul 28, 2006

My understanding from talking to someone involved in the Rusian project three years ago was that (at that stage at least) there was a definite plan to include a mock Mars landing, whereby a portion of the crew would move into a separate compartment for a month or two in the middle of the mission and carry out EVAs in a simulated Mars environment. Whether the simulated Mars environment would include low pressure requiring real enviroment suits I am not sure. With respect to Devon Island the goal is quite different to the Russian mission. Devon Island is primarily to test field methodologies and some human factors research. The prime focus of the Russian mission is life support and human factors. Like seemingly all space projects the time for this has shifted to the right. It is now scheduled for 2007. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

Swampcat · Jul 28, 2006

Thanks, Jon. I wasn't aware that the Russian project would attempt any kind of EVA simulation. It's good to hear. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

jmilsom · Jul 29, 2006

I found the article that I read. It was in the Melbourne afternoon Mx newspaper (28 July 2006): Mars flgiht to be tested Six Russian volunteers are to get a taste of travelling to Mars without ever leaving Moscow. They will be locked up for 500 days in an airtight capsule resembling a spaceship, where they will eat sterile food and breathe processed air. The experiment is designed to help scientists better understand the demands of a long-haul space flgiht, in preparation for future Mars missions. The main question for scientists will be whether the six volunteers can survive 500 days without any outside help. Two points to make: 1. Searching the net I can find no recent reference to this. Just a range of articles from late 2004 (including SDC) stating that it will take place in either 2006 or 2007. 2. Assuming this is actually getting under way now, I hope they do not feeled pressured like the silly Biosphere II people to have success at all costs (and fudge the results). Rather, if it collapses, say after a year, to learn why and try again. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

alokmohan · Jul 29, 2006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5221928.stm.The same thing in bbc news

JonClarke · Jul 29, 2006

The only silly thing about Bisophere 2 was the extremely negative coverage by the media once the program started. It was an immensely valuable and instructive investigation. The Russians have done a whole range of closed chamber before ranging from fully closed life support systems (the BIOS progam) to a wide range of psychologically closed experiments in the mission simulator at IMBP. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Jul 29, 2006

The "space cruiser" mentioned is a Mars mission simulator dating from the early 60's. The pictures I have seen of its interior show this marvellous red and white period decor. This will be used for the main living module, In the70's a smaller much more spartan section was added. I believe this second section is the one that will be used for the Mars lander simulation. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

jmilsom · Jul 29, 2006

It was an immensely valuable and instructive investigation. I agree entirely. I simply lament what it could have been. Is it not correct that under some perceived pressure to be successful, they smuggled in supplies and attempted to doctor the results? Was this correct or was it just media hype that shut the facility down? The fact that it was a big failure the first time round was in my mind a success as we could learn so much from it and try again. In fact one would almost expect to have a long series of enclosed ecosystems failures before coming close to finding something that works. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

jmilsom · Jul 29, 2006

Thanks alok - you found it. So it does look like they are getting close to starting. This will be interesting to follow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Jul 30, 2006

Bisophere 2 was an immensely complex project, with numerous goals. Maybe that was part of its problem. There was the construction of a completely closed bisphere. A major engineering challenge in itself. Then there was the goal of inlcuding minatures of all the earth's major biomes in the structure (oceans, deserts, rain forest, grassland, etc.) within the structure. This too was achieved. Then there was the project of running the whole thing as a fully closed system for 2 years as an exercise in ecological engineering. This was very difficult exercise and they were 99% successful in it. Then there was the investigation of the relevance this technology as for space settlements. The problem was the system was almost certainly too complex and labour intensive for initial space applications (which is where the more modest Russian BIOS experiments succeeded. There were two crews. The first crew battled ant plagues, crop failure, and an unexplained loss of oxygen for two years. Only when oxygen levels had fallen to below safe limits was a small amount pumped in to keep them alive. Eventually the problem was traced to the consumption of O2 by still curing concrete. This was all in all a very successful and instructive experiment. However because it did not achieve 100% closure the media began to redicule the project. (the media seem to have wanted to see people die in the name of experimental purity) What happened with the 2nd crew is more murky. There were allegations of mismanagement, secret supplies being smuggled in, and high levels of interpersonal conflict. and the experiment was abandoned. These were all grist to the media mill and the wholr porject became alaughing stock. there were even allegations that it was a front for some cult. The facilty was then managed for over 8 years by Columbia university for research into specific ecological questions, and did quite bit of interesting <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

jmilsom · Jul 30, 2006

Jon, Thanks for that informative and enlightening reply! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

alokmohan · Jul 30, 2006

Is this biosphere2?

3488 · Jul 31, 2006

Thanks for the clearing up the difference between the Devon Island & Russian Projects. The Biosphere project was sabotaged as far as I understand (windows broken, supplies smuggled in, media interference). It is important that closed system sustainance is mastered before humans can even consider living elsewhere. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Jul 31, 2006

There are a couple of books on the bisophere 2 project that are on my "to read" list. They might shed more light on any funny business and also carify some of the results. Back to the 500 day Russian mission, the project now has a web page at http://www.imbp.ru/Mars500/Mars500-e.html . No pictures, unfortunately, but lots of interesting stuff, including how to apply. Applicants are to be international, of both genders, healthy, between 25-50 years, have university education in the fields of general practitioner having skills of first medical aid, physician-investigator having skills of clinical laboratory diagnostics, biologist, life support engineering, computer engineering, electronic engineering, & mechanical engineering, and have knowledge of the Russian and English languages at the level providing professional and every day communication. Other interesting bits from the site include confirmation of a 6-person crew, a 240 day "flight" to Mars, a 30 day "surface" stay, and a 240 day "flight" home. the surface crew will spend up to 30 days in a condition of "antiorthostatic hypokinesia", presumably to mimic the effects of microgeavity deconditioning. There are 5 compartments totalling 550m3 in volume, including a simulated Mars environment. It sounds very exciting and will be a major achievement. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Aug 1, 2006

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0607/31marssnow/ Has anyone seen this? Worth a read. Hi Jon, great publication, will it be available in the United Kingdom at all? I will certainly purchase a copy, as must EVERYBODY who has an interest in Mars & future human developments. Thank you very much, my friend, it is an honour to be able to share ideas with you on these forums. http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=543058&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Aug 1, 2006

Hi! I assume you are referring to Mars Analog Research? The best way to get it would be to order direct from the publishers. On the peroxide story, I thinki it's a bit of a beat up. Cheers Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

jmilsom · Aug 2, 2006

Fascinating reading. Thanks for the link. It is interesting when we think of space exploration, it is only the names of the astronauts we remember. But how many have particpated in all manner of ground-based trials and experiments to make that possible. It will take a courageous, dedicated and motivated team to attempt this mock mission and they will be paving the way for future manned missions to Mars. I hope it goes well. It will be interesting to watch. I see that: Deadline of the proposals submission - December 31, 2006. So, it should start sometime next year.... Any SDC applicants!? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

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