Sand on Mars, can it made in to Glass or even Plexigass?

[freeshark]

Hi everyone!<br /><br />I was very excited by learning that the Marsian Rover Opportunity got stuck in SAND for a while. Not because it got stuck but because I realised there actually was SAND on mars.<br /><br />I have been preparing a plan to build buildings on Mars for human habitation. The biggest problem with this was obviously material. <br /><br />My first choice of building block would be as much plexiGass as would be practical. The more windows the better. And with PlexiGlass it would also be safer. <br /><br />My question is this: Can the sand the the rover fell in to be identified as Sand that can be easily melted in to Glass?<br /><br />If so it would be a wonderful addition to my plans. <br /><br />It is very easy to SAY that all the materials are there for us to take advantage of, but if costs too much to extract the materials needed then it won't worth while to build anything!<br /><br />But if all we have to do is gather up some sand from the ground and melt it in to sheets of glass then the building blocks are easy to make and FREE.<br /><br />Here is the peice of the article that tlalks about the rover. And the link: <br /><br />http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/051226_rovers2005.html<br /><br />"The robot was then commanded to drive toward a region within Meridiani Planum called Etched Terrain, with Opportunity setting new distance and speed records in the process. In late April, however, ground controllers found that the rover had bogged down in sand, digging itself in to wheel-hub depth.<br /><br />Through delicate and well-practiced maneuvers using a backup rover on Earth, Opportunity successfully extracted itself — an effort that took nearly five weeks before the robot was free from its sand trap."<br /><br />

 

[mlorrey]

One of your errors is that plexiglas is not glass at all, it is an acrylic polymer, i.e. an organic chemical, not silica based.<br /><br />There are many types of sand, not all are silica. Mars dunes are more properly described as dust, as they are pulverized rock. As there is no biological activity going on, there is no opportunity for such material to be broken down into soils. Given the tendency of global windstorms, it should be expected that dust dunes are typically pretty uniform in content, which seem to be iron oxides, carbides, hematites, salts, and yes, some silica. Separating these materials would likely require merely a centrifuge based process to separate the silica materials from the non-silica materials.

 

[scottb50]

http://helio.estec.esa.nl/intermarsnet/redreport/node24.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[josh_simonson]

Plexiglass is also very soft and scratches easilly. Windows on mars would need to be made of a hard glass so that dust wouldn't scratch it up. A plexiglass window would quickly lose clarity. The plastics in plexiglass or acrylic may also subliminate in a vaccuum, which would also be a showstopper.

 

[nexium]

Transparent glass can be made from the oxides of silicon, calcium, sodium, lead and a few other elements. Impurities make the glass less transparent, give it a tint and/or make thick layers of glass opaic. The sand of Mars, moon and asteroids likely has many impurities which need to be reduced to a few parts per million to produce thick glass that will let in useful amounts of light. I agree alternately sifting and centrifuge may achieve sufficient purity, but considerable energy will be used.<br />I suggest we think ten meters plus, underground habitats, with fiber optics delivering some light. This will reduce the radiation exposure and the problems caused by cold nights. Neil

 

[freeshark]

Ok guys,<br /><br />Thanks for the replies! <br /><br />So no plexiglass. Got it!<br /><br />I still want to make Glass though for windows and such. <br /><br />Do you know any good sites that could tell me how to do the ctrifuge thing? <br /><br />I am curious to know how much energy would be required to make a machine like that work.<br /><br />Isn't Silica also used in Cement? <br /><br />The buildings I had in mind need to be half underground any way for good sound structure but having the ALL the way under ground would be no fun at ALL. <br /><br />I am sure we could Tint the windows with some lead for the radiation though. <br /><br />Either way I realise I have to start studying MUCH more then I have to make my plans work out. <br /><br />Thanks a lot guys for clearing that up. I now have more faith then ever that my ideas can one day be used!<br /><br />Dave <br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[mlorrey]

Centrifuging would be rather simple. You are not refining uranium here, so you could essentially make one out of a clothes washing machine, after welding shut the holes in the drum. Fill it with a well mixed martian dust and water slurry, sit and spin. After a few hours, you can drain the water and you'll have a nicely graduated layer system in the sedimentation, with the densest material at the bottom and lightest at the top. In addition, all soluble mat'ls, like salts, will be dissolved by the water. There should be a layer of silica and mat'ls of the same density. remove everything above it, and chuck that (unless there is something there useful), carefully scrape out all the silica layer, then get rid of everything below. Do this repeatedly until you've got a big pile of silica-like density material, and centrifuge just it, for a lot longer, this will sort out stuff that has slightly different densities.<br /><br />Once this is done, you can then run it through a process that will separate the remaining material by its dielectric constant, or K value, using an electrostatic method. From this, you should be able to obtain nearly pure silica.

 

[freeshark]

Ok first of all, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?<br /><br />Secondly, that doesn't seem very difficult. I assume we can bring specific equipement to make that process even faster.<br /><br />Do you think sun light and wind mill power would produce enough energy to run the machine?<br /><br />Once we have the pure silica it is all a matter of melting and forming it right?<br /><br />Also, how much sand would we need to sift through to get say one pound of silica? <br /><br />Thanks for the input!<br /><br />Dave<br />

 

[mlorrey]

A little research in the history of glass making and other stuff will get you good info on practical methods of obtaining silica.<br /><br />Sunlight is 1/4 of Earth normal at Mars. Wind power? Eh, no. Glass blowers I know either run off of grid electric, hydropower, or they burn fossil fuels. Takes a lot of heat to turn sand to glass. I've not seen any experiments with solar concentrators.<br /><br />I'd suggest you study up on glassmaking. There's plenty of stuff out there, use your google.<br /><br />I have no idea what the silica concentrations would be in various locales of Mars.

 

[nexium]

Because of the thinner atmosphere and thin clouds, Mars likely averages almost as much as the solar electric output of average Earth locations. It is thought that large winged airplanes can fly at low altitudes on Mars, so wind turbines are also possible, but perhaps not practical.<br />Soft glass is only about half silica, the rest being mostly calcium oxide and sodium oxides. The carbonates are often used, but they become oxides in the high heat. The calcium and sodium oxides lower the melting point to about 1/2 the melting point of silica glass. On Earth, silica sand is the most common type and it is silicon dioxide. It is sometimes called quartz sand. Neil

 

[josh_simonson]

Descriptions of wind speed and sandstorms give the impression that wind is forceful on mars, but since the atmosphere is 100x less dense than on earth the wind is actually extremely weak.