Science channel today on supermassive black holes -questions

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newtonian

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Today is science channel's day for astronomy and cosmology programs. Now is Deep Space One (2001) concerning new navigation techniques (AI) and ion drive, etc.<br /><br />Then is Cosmos on journeys in space and time with Carl sagan.<br /><br />And then my favorite on supermassive black holes - also from 2001.<br /><br />I have many questions on this.<br /><br />For example, it has been shown that virtually all galaxies have supermassive black holes and that there is a definite ratio of black hole mass to galactic mass in all galaxies studied (by 2001).<br /><br />Also, there is a definiote ratio of outer edge galactic stellar revolution rates to the spin rate of the black hole.<br /><br />Suggesting that black holes caused galaxies - or are involved in the cause,<br /><br />Here are some questions:<br /><br />Do most black hole orbits recede or decay? <br /><br />That question is based in part on the program statement that black holes provide 25% pf the energy of the universe.<br /><br />In other words - like our moon are some stars receding from black holes rather than having decaying orbits?<br /><br />Also, is tidal interaction one cause of said recession of orbits?<br /><br />That is, of course, the reason our moon is receeding in orbit.<br /><br />Another questioln is - since black hole spin is apparently primordial - is there any bias in spin that would indicate universal spin near the origin of our universe?<br />
 
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six_strings

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I saw the show on supermassive blackholes also....<br />Does this suggest we can discount dark matter as the source for the unpredicted orbital speeds of objects at the edge of galaxies? Am having a discussion about a matter concerning this dark matter on another thread <b> HERE</b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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nexium

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I did not see the program, but I will guess anyway.<br />1 Many galaxies lack a supermassive black hole<br />2 We don't know the spin rate of the event horizon nor the singularitiy. Likely we have some idea of the rotation rate of the accreation disk, but that speed likely decreases sharply with the distance from the event, horizon<br />3 The estimates of the mass of the black hole likely are in error, and so are the ratios to galaxy mass and outer edge galaxy steller revelution rates<br />4 Black holes are slightly involved in the formation of galaxies<br />5 The closer part of the accreation disk is decaying. The orbit of the singularity likely has a very small radius which we canot hope to measure.<br />6 25% is a wild guess<br />7 Some stars are receding, others are decaying, but we will have to observe for about a billion years to be sure this is a long term trend. Tidal interaction is a very minor cause of resession<br />8 have no ideas about premoidal spin.<br /> Neil
 
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newtonian

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six_strings - I suspect that there are many factors involved with both galaxy formation and those faster than expected revolution rates of stars in edge areas of galaxies implying a halo of dark matter in edge areas.<br /><br />For example, black holes may cause exotic dark matter which therefore would show a ratio of speed to primordial black hole spin. <br /><br />If this rate ratio is indeed confirmed to be relatively constant in all galaxies, that would mean either the effect was already caused long ago, or that black hole spin in relatively constant.<br /><br />I say relatively, because current black hole feeding in supermassive black holes involves a very small percentage of increase from primordial mass - e.g. in quasar gobbling stage - such that changes may not be detected - or may simply not have been looked for (as in changes in the CMBR which is almost but not quite homogenous.).<br /><br />I hope to check out that thread later - but am super busy! <br /><br />[Note: among the many other causes of structure is shock waves from the big bang, more specifically from CMBR formation some 100,000-300,000 years after BB. <br /><br />See the Scientific American article on the Cosmic Symphony.<br /><br />It seems many tenable theories are posited to be THE cause of structure - I suspect there are multiple causes, and that some are simply different stages in the line of causes and effects starting with the First Cause.
 
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newtonian

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Neil - Hi!<br /><br />I have little time, but here goes:<br /><br />1. According to the program, all galaxies have supermassive black holes - of course by extrapolation from limited observations. Note the mass is very variable, e.g. 1,000,000 solar mass to 10 billion solar mass BH's were referenced on the program.<br /><br />2. I suspect that is correct - others likely disagree.<br /><br />3. Perhaps, but are you aware of any evidence for error?<br /><br />4. Well, I suspect more than slightly, but certainly not exclusively. I suspect that there may also be similar causes to both the black hole spin and galaxy spin which would also explain the ratio. <br /><br />And magnetic fields may be involved in the initial seeding of galaxies - see the Scientific American article on The Emptiest places, concerning IGM (intergalactic medium) observations - now known to be very hot and very ionized and not constant in either heat or ionizatioon since the big bang - to wit it has been reheated and reionized.<br /><br />.....<br /><br />7. Do you have any link on that - i.e. some stars receeding and some stars decaying?<br /><br />I hope to respond better later......
 
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newtonian

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You all - More questions prompted by the program:<br /><br />A. Is one of the reasons some supermassive black holes are not feeding: stars and gas are receeding by some cause and effect mechanism - and if so, what cause(s) - emanation of exotic dark matter or dark energy? BH magnetic fields/spin/frame dragging of space/time? Etc.<br /><br />B. What is the most rapidly receeding orbit we have observed:<br /><br /> (1) In our solar system - such as: moons, kuiper belt, Oort cloud/comets?<br /><br /> (2) In our galaxy, including around core black hole, other black holes, revolving galaxie and their stars (magelannic clouds etc.).<br /><br /> (3) In our supercluster on the river in space heading for the Great Attractor, assuming future revolution around said Great Attractor [by computer simulation/extrapolation from current observations.<br /><br />C. Do average (mean) orbits decay?<br /><br />D. Does the one half of 1% of galaxy mass = supermassive black hole mass ratio change with time?<br /><br />E. Is it certain that supermassive black holes force galaxy back, in galaxy formation stage, due to pressure from gas release? Does that account for the various shapes and properties of galaxies? <br /><br />F. Could the cause of receeding be also/either spin or tidal interaction? If tidal interaction, how could this effect influence from inside the event horizon to outside the event horizon? <br /><br />G. From F: Could tidal effects be transmitted due to propagation of exotic dark matter from within the event horizon to edge areas of galaxies?<br /><br />H. Could the forcing back of galactic matter from supermassive black hole in formation stage be related to acceleration of expansion of our universe - perhaps linked by propagation of dark energy by black holes?<br /><br />I consider the possibility that the expansion rate of our universe has multiple causes.<br /><br />For example, whatever is causing the slowing of distant space probes.
 
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