Seed Ships

[matt617]

Hi space lovers,

I want to do a little brain-picking, if you'll let me...

I'm working on a science fiction screenplay and I don't feel like I have a strong enough grasp of the science. I just had this idea of a Seed Ship, which I see has been around for a while but hasn't really gotten a lot of play in the movies. I have some practical questions about it...

I'm wondering about the feasibility of a "seed ship" -- a ship that carries frozen sperm and eggs for several centuries while approaching a new planet. Supposing that the insemination process worked, and that artificial uteruses (uterii??) worked, would you want to effect the process while spacebound, giving the "crew" a safe and controlled environment to grow up (and be trained) in?

I realize that insemination en route kind of negates some of the benefits of a seed ship (ie. space requirements, oxygen requirements) -- but supposing that the decision was made to do it anyway for psychological and educational purposes -- what are some considerations? Oxygen production would be a challenge, but could be effected at first by robots, then continued by people.

Food and formula could be kept in deep freeze, I suppose, but over hundreds of years, what contingencies would you have to deal with regarding storage? Would all of your oxygen eventually escape? Would the deep freeze hold up for that long?

I'm thinking that the ship can go 1/100 the speed of light (plasma or laser boosters), taking about 600 years to reach a relatively close star system. It would take a trained human crew (theoretically) to adjust to the challenges of approach and landing.

And then the emotional considerations: would your first generation be so emotionally stunted that they'd lose all humanity? How could you accommodate for this? Would raising the infants as a group help? What are some other psychological/educational considerations?

I'm most interested in the human element here -- I like the idea of an uber-rip van winkle awakening, the dynamics that would arise between the "crew" of 17 (who would birth many more diverse genomes once established on the planet) -- part of me thinks they would want to have babies young so that's out of the way, the normal human lineage could be re-established, the kids could be somewhat grown upon arrival.

I don't know if anybody has any interest in these ideas...I've been accused of "Tom Sawyer-istic" behavior in the past ("Look how much fun it is to paint this fence!") -- but I think it's an interesting concept and I'd love some input. If nothing else, all this typing has helped me de-lineate some of my own thoughts!

thanks
Matt

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Sorry Matt. Zen is no longer sharing his creative-writing secrets.


But seriously, yeah, 'Seed Ships'. It's a viable idea, in the real world. (That sounds contradictory. But in the 'real world' of logical speculation on future 'manned' space exploration missions, it's not.) No one lately has tried to write the concept into a screenplay because the concept is too risky in the obsessive/corporate/commercial arena of modern day film studios. They assume-probably correctly- that the average audience won't be able to follow such a profound yet simple concept.

Ever since 'Star Wars' in 1977, even though that was a ground-breaking film, studios for the most part have been reluctant at best, and fearfully unwilling at worst, to do any kind of deep, pure science-fiction along the lines of '2001:A Space Oddysey', or 'Alien'*, or even the somewhat shallow but still good "Logan's Run".

Alright, I'll share a secret. It's not so much how accurate and viable the science is in your science-fiction story. What's more important is the story itself, and the believability of the characters. Of course the science in good science-fiction is important. That's what separates it from science-fantasy, like 'Star Wars'.

But researching the science, and the plausible science of the future, is the easy part. It's the viable story and characters, for most fiction writers, that is the challenge.

*Obviously 'Alien' came out after 'Star Wars', and of course they're actually different genres and the full impact of 'Star Wars' on the industry had not fully been realized(thank God). But anyone who's seen the path of sci-fi films in the last 25 years or so knows what I'm talking about.

 

[matt617]

thanks for responding, ZG. I'm not really too concerned about the studio system -- I'm writing the script as a self-contained thriller, to take place entirely on board the ship before they land. If it gets made, it'll get made by me with funding from local businesses, grants, and my own savings. (This isn't my first indie rodeo!)

So what I'm really interested in is a discussion of the science and the practicalities of keeping something on ice for that long.

thanks
Matt

 

[crazyeddie]

The first thing that pops into my mind when contemplating your scenario is, "who/what is going to raise the children?". Obviously, you will need some VERY sophisticated, humaniform robots of some kind to nurture the babies once they are decanted from the artificial womb. Would they be able to remain functional after 600 or more years in storage? Would they be able to successfully mimic mothering behavior? Assuming they could, how would the first generation of children feel about having robots for parents? Would they grow to resent the life they were fated to live and the total lack of control over their own destinies? How such people grow into adults, and the effect this kind of extraordinary upbringing would have on their personalities would make a fascinating story all by itself.

Arthur C. Clarke touched on these ideas in his novel, "The Songs of Distant Earth", which used the same premise, but it wasn't the focus of the story. He merely indicated that after the seed ship made planetfall, the first generation of children were emotional wrecks. Such psychologically damaged people tend to raise similarly damaged children themselves, so it could be generations before this problem rectifies itself, if it ever does.

On the technology side, maintaining viable mechanical systems and human sperm and eggs (already-fertilized embryos would probably make things a little simpler) for several hundred years would be very problematic. How could you adequately shield the ship from the constant bombardment of high-energy cosmic rays, which could damage computer memory and human DNA? Would the ship be able to repair itself if malfunctions occur? It might be a lot simpler to just construct a generational starship with a living crew than it would be to overcome these hurdles.

 

[junkheap]

For a moment, I tried putting myself in the shoes of these people that came from the seed ship and I found that if I knew about my ancestors storing me away and sending me away to a distant planet, I'd be pretty angry.

You might want to think of some way to conteract that, but it might mean them being lied to about the past.

I would think that you'd want some kind of "farm" on board the ship as well for food on the way and so that they'd know how to harvest their own food once they arrive.

 

[matt617]

I'd like to set this launch in the next 20 years, so limited robotics -- the psycho/educational challenges are what make it interesting, like maybe the babies are just barely swaddled to get through early infancy, and then their need for contact is met through each other. They'd kind of grow up as a collective -- all the educational media would instill this ethos in 'em, too.

About the feelings of abandonment, JP, we'd set them up as being the great hope of humanity, really put their mission up on a pedestal. They'd get their "family connection" through each other and through recorded messages, all timed to go off at different developmental stages.

I've heard, CE, that the favored seed ship idea has robots do the terraforming, then the humans are birthed. I'd like to see the onus put on the "crew" -- that the challenges to be met and the creativity required far surpass AI potential.

What kind of a farm could you set up? Could robots plant the seeds at the same time as they began to defrost the embryos (I thought I'd read that there were more difficulties with freezing embryos than with sperm/egg cells...)?

What about oxygen tanks? What's a viable amount of oxygen to transport over hundreds of years? What about water?

Self-circulating systems justify generational ships, but maybe that sacrifice was too much for earth generations to make(?)

Is there any way to conceive a ship that "grows" as the crew grows up? Then having them in deep freeze for the bulk of the journey is further justified (speed, energy advantages)

I don't know -- obviously I'm still in brainstorming stages right now, thanks for the help!!

Matt