Should Pluto be excluded from Solar System models now?

[wonky]

I don't understand all the recent screaming about Pluto's new status in the solar system. It's not like the place doesn't exist anymore. It's still there, it hasn't exploded or anything.<br /><br />I don't see why the new class of "dwarf planets" can't be included in new solar system models.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Welcome, Wonky<br /><br />The reason is that you would exclude it is that you'd need at least a dozen new doodads to represent the similarly sized objects now, and probably a hundred by the end of 2008.<br />Now you can do it, but it sure would be a tough one to construct! <br /><br />On the other hand, although I'm an 8 planet guy, having a few plutinos and Ceres would certainly ignite an educational discussion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

I suppose Good's Furniture in Kewanee, IL is no longer significant. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[pocket_rocket]

I don't see the big deal either.<br /><br />In my opinion, Pluto actually got a promotion rather than a demotion. It is now almost in a sunlike category.<br /><br />Look at it like this. There are 8 planets. Nothing unique in being a planet. There is only 1 sun. Very unique. Now there is 1 ex-planet.<br />Pluto: the only ex-planet!

 

[ittiz]

Some asteriods like Ceres are X-planets as well.

 

[qso1]

Wonky:<br />I don't see why the new class of "dwarf planets" can't be included in new solar system models.<br /><br />Me:<br />Thats true, we already have gas giants or giant planets although they havn't been officially categorized as such. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[wonky]

True, we've already got Sedna, Quaoar, and the various unnamed ones.<br /><br />And don't forget Ceres!!!<br /><br />It just seems to me that the way the media is portraying it, we should act like Pluto never even existed and forget the name.<br /><br />Typical overracation, I suppose.

 

[johns805]

No. Pluto is a planet. http://www.plutoisaplanet.org/<br /><br /> <br />

 

[bonzelite]

if you want solar system models, then dream on. there are gas giant planets nearly an arm's reach away from their parent star --no plausible room for in-between rocky planets in many extrasolar systems. <br /><br />as well, the KBOs are going to vastly outnumber the major planets. at Pluto, the solar system is merely showing us "Act 2" of what it is about --that being nearly entirely unknown. as well, we've barlely explored 5% of the Earth's oceans. we have no idea about anything. <br />

 

[alienlover]

I agree, Pluto is a planet. The new definition is rediculous. You could just as easily say that Mercury and Venus are not planets since niether have sattelites. Certainly the Sun had something to do with clearing their paths. I've also seen photographs of pluto in which it appears to have an atmosphere! A body with an atmosphere and sattelites is much more worthy of the designation of "planet" than does the airless, moonless rock that is Mercury. Anybody want to drop the number of planets to 7? Do I hear 6? Maybe there are only 2 planets, earth and Mars since only they are terrestrial bodies with both atmosphere and sattelites. as for the gas giants - well they're only failed solar systems that orbit our own.

 

[bonzelite]

i think the basic rationale about the Pluto demotion is simply that the mainstream establishment does not want to add new planets to text books every year, as they all knew on that official panel that the number of planets, like in the case of Jupiter's moon count, can climb yearly, if not monthly, once more sensitive location techniques become available. <br /><br />wait until they find a KBO the size of mars or earth. there will then be another debate, as this body will not be a dwarf planet. the number of larger planets is simply assumed to be within the neighborhood of the major 8. but his may be entirely false. <br /><br />

 

[vagueship]

Does Mickey Mouse have to rename his dog?<br /><br />I have to go with the 8 planet system. Pluto is a small chunk of ice. Maybe ice planet comes into play here, though.

 

[alienlover]

Jupiter is just a big ball of gas -a failed star- so why not give it that designation. As for Pluto being being a small chunk of ice - its true make up is is really not yet known. Even if so - if Gas planet is still a planet, then Ice planet is still a planet.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Jupiter is not a failed star, it never came close enough to fail.<br /><br />Pluto is not just ice, it has rock too. Well find out more in a decade when we get there. There are at leat dozens, and probably hundreds of other objects like it in similar orbits. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

<font color="yellow"><br />Does Mickey Mouse have to rename his dog? <br /><br />I have to go with the 8 planet system. Pluto is a small chunk of ice. Maybe ice planet comes into play here, though.</font><br /><br />your post makes no sense to me. name of a dog? what? <br /><br />and you have no idea what Pluto is. Pluto is like Enceladus and you know this? and we have seen Enceladus, and don't know it's full composition. and you know what Pluto is? <br /><br />right <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">your post makes no sense to me. name of a dog? what? </font><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Some people just can't take a joke!<br /><br />Or don't get it (which has happened to me before <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[alienlover]

Okey-dokey I guess I was just misled by erroneous science books that referred to Jupiter as "the star that failed" (i.e. correct composition but without sufficient mass). Whatever the case I'm sick of Pluto now. In my opinion it is a planet, and opinion is all I can see from the so called "scientific" ruling.

 

[MeteorWayne]

You are entitled to your opinion.<br />I'm on the other side.<br />Sometimes we all just won't agree on contentious issues. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[brazilian_and_proud]

think of it this way if we keep pluto we have to add more pluto-like planets like xena and sedna

 

[bonzelite]

oh. now i get it. <br /><br />

 

[superluminal]

and Quaoar.<br /><br />OK, In order to teach young students the new system order, aside from the debate of if they are considered planets or not, <br /> Exactly, How would that order be? <br /> <br /> Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, (asteroids belt ) Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Quaoar, Sedna, Xena? <br />Is this the correct order ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><br /><strong><font size="3" color="#3366ff">Columbia and Challenger </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="3" color="#3366ff">Starships of Heroes</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[kheider]

The order to list them in is difficult to decide. Do you want to list them in order of their <b>CURRENT distance</b> from the sun or their <b>AVERAGE distance</b> from the Sun? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> A lot of these Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs) have highly eccentric orbits that cause their distances to vary greaterly. Take Pluto as an example. From January 21, 1979 to February 11, 1999, Pluto was closer than Neptune.<br /><br />But this is how I list them: <b>(listed by orbital period)</b><br /><br />Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, <b>Ceres</b> (Asteroid Belt), Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune,<br /><br />Orcus (1000km dia; 30-48AU (39AU); <b>247 years</b>; 0.22 eccentricity; 20 inclination)<br />1993SC (363km; 32-46AU; 247.3 years; 0.18 ecc; 5 inc)<br /><b>Pluto</b> (2300km; 30-50AU (40AU); 248 years; 0.25 ecc; 17 inc; 0.49-0.66 (varies 35%!) albedo)<br />Ixion (500km; 30-49AU (40AU); 248.6 years; 0.24 ecc; 19 inc; 0.15 albedo)<br />Huya (480km; 28-51AU (40AU); 251 years; 0.28 ecc; 15 inc)<br />1995SM55 (702km; 37-45AU (42AU); 267 years; 0.10 ecc; 27 inc)<br />2002UX25 (838km; 36-49AU (42AU); 277 years; 0.14 ecc; 19 inc)<br />Varuna (930km; 40-45AU (43AU); 283 years; 0.05 ecc; 17 inc; <b>0.04 albedo</b>)<br />2003EL61 (1400km football; 35-51AU (43AU); 285 years; 0.18 ecc; 28 inc; 0.7 albedo)<br />Quaoar (1260km; 43AU; 287 years; 0.04 ecc; 7.9 inc; 0.10 albedo)<br />Chaos (745km; 41-50AU (45AU); 307 years; 0.10 ecc; 12 inc)<br />2005FY9 (1500km; 38-53AU (46AU); 310 years; 0.16 ecc; 29 inc; 0.8 albedo?)<br />2002AW197 (793km; 41-53AU (47AU); 325 years; 0.13 ecc; 24 inc; 0.17 albedo)<br />2002TC302 (1200km; 39-71AU (55AU); 408 years; 0.29 ecc; 35 inc)<br />Buffy (554km; 51-63AU (57AU); 430 years; 0.11 ecc; <b>47 inc</b>; 0.04-0.16 albedo?)<br />Eris (2400km; 38-97AU (67AU); 557 years; 0.44 ecc; 44 inc; <b>0.86 albedo</b>)<br />2000CR105 (265km; 44-397AU (224AU); 3175 years; 0.79 ecc; 23 inc)<br />Sedna (1180-1800km; 76-975AU (525AU); <b>12050 years</b>; 0.86 ecc; 12 inc; 0.2 alb

 

[MeteorWayne]

Thanks.<br />This was a question I was going to raise, but you detailed the information very nicely.<br />How many realize that the Pizza for Pluto came before Neptune for two decades when Pluto was closer to the sun?<br />And it was recent, too! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>