Shuttle TAL abort sites

ltm_se · Feb 28, 2006

The primary abort sites are if i understand correctly 2 airports in spain (Zaragosza, Moron) one in Senegal (Dakar), 2 in Morocco (Casablanca and Ben Gueirir) and one in Gambia (Banjul). What kind of hardware are available at these sites? Do they have the special ILS systems the shuttle uses for landing? Special safing equipment etc? How about people, is Nasa personel present at all those sites during shuttle launches? Also i've heard there is a "TAL" site on easter island, is this true or was it the primary abort site for the planned vanderberg launches?

vogon13 · Feb 28, 2006

As the shuttle astronauts testified during the Challenger mishap, once you come down in Senegal, (or where ever it was), how do you get the orbiter back? In 1986, that was viewed as quite a problem, now, it's bad enough, but probably doable. Additionally, one of the African runways terminates at a cliff. An over run (deemed more likely with the undeployed payload still on board) would be ungood there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

drwayne · Feb 28, 2006

Fascinating. Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher </div>

bpcooper · Feb 28, 2006

Yes, Easter Island was the main TAL...actually TPL...for VAFB flights. Mullane says in his book he did not believe 62A was a sure thing at all, and one of the many reasons was political problems. Just two months form launch they still had not secured it as a TAL site. Easter Island is also on the list of worldwide emergency sites (as far dozens of others). There are strips lining the US East coast. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -Ben </div>

danwoodard · Feb 28, 2006

The new TAL site is Istres Air Base in France. Gambia was used only for 28.5 degree orbits, and was dropped since no more equatorial launches are planned. Ben Guerir Air Base in Morocco was dropped because of security concerns, although at one time it was a US military base. All the TAL sites have MSBLS (Microwave scanning beam landing system) and "xenon" spotlights like the runways in the US and have crews from KSC who set up the navaids before each launch. Gambia had a KSC occupational physician who acccompanied the ops group, an interesting temporary assignment! All sites also have a USAF medical support aircraft during the actual launch. At Istres the French provide fire/rescue, don't know about the sites in Spain. Interestingly, at the start of the Shuttle program about 30 years ago there was a plan to install MSBLS at all US airports to replace ILS, but it was cancelled due to cost and improvements in ILS and only the Shuttle, which was to be the first user, has used it from that day to this.

ltm_se · Mar 1, 2006

"We had detailed procudres for all site that safe the vehicle and do what is necessary to ferry the vehicle back on a Boeing 747. The &$& does not have mid air refueling capability and must crusie at a max altitude of 15,000 ft so it burn fuel very quickly. The low altitude is required to prevent damage to the Orbiter systems from the cold air at high altitude." How? Is there really a possibility to ferry the shuttle across the atlantic considering it has to do a pitstop for the Edwards to KFC jump? Also, if its carrying a heavy payload the range of the 747 would be much less then normal?

ltm_se · Mar 1, 2006

"Easter Island is also on the list of worldwide emergency sites (as far dozens of others). There are strips lining the US East coast." I've seen such a list. Are the airports on that emergencylist in anyway modified for the shuttle or are they just normal airports but considered "safe" politicaly etc?

jschaef5 · Mar 1, 2006

They could always put it on a boat if need be... it doesn't weight that much does it? If it can sit on a plane it can sit on a boat. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bpcooper · Mar 1, 2006

"I've seen such a list. Are the airports on that emergencylist in anyway modified for the shuttle or are they just normal airports but considered "safe" politicaly etc? " No, they are just runways which are suitable to sustain the shuttle's rollout in terms of distance and impact. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -Ben </div>

CalliArcale · Mar 1, 2006

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />No that would expose the vehicle to too much damage due to werather. The Orbiter will be ferried back on the SCA. The Orbiter weighs over 220,000 pounds after a flight.<hr /></blockquote> Man, it's enough of a logistical nightmare just to ferry it overland on the SCA; I can't imagine how much worse it would be via boat across the Atlantic! It'd probably only work if you could carry it internally somehow in a climate-controlled hanger aboard the ferry vessel. I'm not sure there are any ships with an internal space (and of course a door to that internal space) that can accept an Orbiter. That vertical stabilizer stands awfully tall. That reminds me of a funny picture I saw once. It was Columbia, following her last refit, mated to the SCA. Due to the threat of bad weather in Palmdale, they rolled SCA and Orbiter into the biggest hanger available, but even that tall door would not accept Columbia on the back of a 747. They rolled it in as far as they could -- basically up to the stabilizer. It looked kind of amusing to see Columbia and the SCA hanging their butts out the door of an aircraft hanger.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

jschaef5 · Mar 1, 2006

What is so bad about the weather on it? Isn't it exposed to the same conditions while being hauled out to the pad and sitting there for a bit. I know salt water would be very bad, but how would rain effect it. Or is it just a precautionary thing to keep it out of the weather if at all possible? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

vogon13 · Mar 1, 2006

Encountering rain at SCA cruising speed destroys the thermal tiles. Happened once at the begining of the program. Took months and months to replace all the damaged tiles. They will never let that happen again. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

CalliArcale · Mar 1, 2006

Plus, even getting wet sitting on the runway is bad. It's happened. Basically, the Orbiter gets a water-resistant coating before it's rolled out to the pad. This protects it from rain prior to liftoff. But the coating burns off during reentry. If the Orbiter gets rained on, the water will get between the tiles. This isn't a problem while it's on the ground, but it's very bad if it goes into orbit like that, because the water will freeze in space and expand, breaking the tiles. I remember pictures of Columbia (I think it was) sitting in a big white tent inside the OPF with heat lamps all around her to bake out the water. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

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