Soyuz-2-1 and enhancements

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themanwithoutapast

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The first Soyuz-2-1B test has been announced to liftoff in the 3.Quarter of 2006 http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2757213&PageNum=0 - thus a reason to discuss this enhanced Soyuz.<br /><br />1. On http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2.html payload capacities are stated as 8.5 tons from Baikonour and about 9 to 9.2 tons to LEO from Kourou compared to the 7tons to LEO the Soyuz is capable to lift right now. While I understand that this helps Starsem to get more and better contracts for commercial payloads, I do ask myself what they will do with the additional payload capacity with regard to launches of a Soyuz-TMA? The Soyuz (spacecraft) is so cramped, that there is no way to include additional payloads racks of 1-1.5 tons of food or equipment. They could just add more fuel for reboost maneuvours of the ISS, but even that would require an enhancement of the Soyuz service module, that might cost more than it actually helps at the end. So any other suggestions to make use of these spare payload capacities for manned Soyuz flights or will they keep on using the old Soyuz configuration rather than Soyuz-2 for manned Soyuz crafts?<br /><br />2. With the current proposal to remove Kliper's service module and instead use a previously launched 6-7ton heavy Parom as a space tug, Kliper gets very, very near to the payload capacity of a Soyuz-2. According to the plans announced so far the Kliper crew module weights 9.8tons and the service module weights 4.7tons for a total mass of 14.5tons. Thus there are only a few hundred kilograms that Kliper has to get lighter or respectively a few hundred kilograms that a Soyuz-2 must be able to lift more. So, if Kliper gets built eventually, is it now settled that a Soyuz-2 will be the launcher of choice? - I personally am very confinced that this is what th
 
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JonClarke

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I was under the impression that Soyuz 2-1 was being considered for the light Kliper launch.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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themanwithoutapast

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"I was under the impression that Soyuz 2-1 was being considered for the light Kliper launch. "<br /><br />Well I did know that the Soyuz 2-3 (a 12-13ton LEO payload vehicle as far as I read) was considered for a Kliper launch, I did not read anywhere that the Soyuz 2-1 was considered to launch Kliper in the Space-tug configuration - thus my speculation. Well, then I guess for a Soyuz-2-1 they might drop the (unnecessary?)wings from the design to get from 9.8 to 9.0 tons...
 
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ronatu

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This is not a creazy opinion - this is a well known course of actions... (for russians) <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />
 
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JonClarke

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I may have been confusing the two.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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gunsandrockets

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"...payload capacities are stated as 8.5 tons from Baikonour and about 9 to 9.2 tons to LEO from Kourou compared to the 7tons to LEO the Soyuz is capable to lift right now...According to the plans announced so far the Kliper crew module weights 9.8tons and the service module weights 4.7tons for a total mass of 14.5tons. Thus there are only a few hundred kilograms that Kliper has to get lighter or respectively a few hundred kilograms that a Soyuz-2 must be able to lift more.?"<br /><br />Russianspaceweb info has the mass of the latest version of the Kliper's reentry vehicle as 8.8 tons. So the Kliper minus the orbital-module already fits within the Soyuz2 payload when fired from Kourou.<br /><br />But the payload figure for Kourou launch is probably not the 51 degree inclined orbit of the ISS. So the lower Baikonour payload figure is really the number that matters. Even so, when launched from Baikonour, there is only a 300 kg gap between the mass of the Kliper and the payload of the Soyuz2.<br /><br />I believe one way or another, lightening the Kliper or improving the payload of the Soyuz LV, Russia intends to close the gap and use Soyuz launched Kliper for ISS access.<br /><br />"Well, then I guess for a Soyuz-2-1 they might drop the (unnecessary?)wings from the design to get from 9.8 to 9.0 tons..."<br /><br />I always thought the Kliper wings were something the Russians added to make Kliper more appealing to the ESA. If the ESA doesn't give the Russians what they want I expect the Russians will return the Kliper to the lighter parachute/touchdown-rocket landing method of the more familiar SoyuzTMA spacecraft. A lighter Kliper is also more suited for deep-space missions, something the Russians and the ESA ultimately want.
 
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shoogerbrugge

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The Soyuz 2-1a already flew from Plestek in 2004, from a brand new refurbished pad overthere. I think it flew with a dummy satellite. Maybe the 2-1b will fly next from Baikonour.<br /><br />I was under the impression that the increase in performance wasn't that big. The main reason for the new version of Soyuz was to replace analouge equipment with digital, and to slash foreign suppliers. <br /><br />Besides, it would be for Starsem be more interesting to upgrade the upperstage of the Soyuz, the upload to LEO is just fine, but the payload to GTO is too low.
 
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arezn99

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Shoogerbrugge: <br />Besides, it would be for Starsem be more interesting to upgrade the upperstage of the Soyuz, the upload to LEO is just fine, but the payload to GTO is too low.<br /><br />I think the Soyuz-2 payload to GTO may be considerably increased if the hydrogen upperstage of Ariane-4/5 (of course, with modernization) would be used as that of Soyuz-2! <br />The version of Soyuz-2 with a hydrogen upperstage can be named Soyuz 2-1c.<br /><br />Do Starsem/Arianspace and Russians have such a plan? <br /><br />Perhaps, Russians themselves can make Soyuz 2-1c using one of KVRBs which were developed for an Indian rocket and Angara.<br /><br />How much payload can Soyuz 2-1c deliver to LEO and GTO from Kourou?<br />
 
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shoogerbrugge

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I do think the KVBR is a bit too heavy and bulky for the Soyuz. I dont know of any such proposal at least.<br /><br />The Fregat and Ikar upper stages are already in use and did indeed increase the payload to GTO. I believe they only used the Ariane 4 payload shroud, and not its complete upperstage.
 
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syndroma

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Soyuz-2 is being virtually launched from Baikonur.<br /><br />Today Soyuz-2-1a with Fregat upper stage, Ariane fairing and without European satellite METOP was erected on pad 6, complex 31 of Baikonur.<br />http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1336 (Gallery)<br />Ground crew will perfom full checks and launch operations, except fueling. Then the rocket will be transported back until the launch, which is planned on June 30.
 
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shoogerbrugge

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Do you know if they also overhauled pad 6 completly. I remember that the pad at Plestek looked all shiny and new for the Soyuz-2-1a launch overthere.<br /><br />The fairing is indeed quite a bit bigger, Its great to see the old lady still in development
 
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shoogerbrugge

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Speaking of the devil. On flight international the following article <br /><br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The maiden flight of Russia’s new Samara Soyuz 2-1b launcher is expected to take place this September, if integration tests of the new RD-0124 third-stage engine succeed this March. Integration and two hot firing tests of the Soyuz 2-1b’s third stage will take place near Moscow in March and April.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Manufactured by the Design Bureau of Chemical Automatics, in Voronezh in south-west Russia, the RD-0124 replaces the RD-0110 third-stage engine and provides an additional 34s specific impulse, increasing overall launcher performance. RD-0124 firing tests on 27 December were “successful” <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />
 
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syndroma

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Shoogerbrugge,<br />Yes, I think they overhauled pad completely - new digital ground support equipment, some modifications to hardware, new paint.
 
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ace5

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they are using the same railroad flatbed that usually carries 11A511U Soyuz U and U2 launchers, but the rocket seems a little bit inclined, since the payload fairing is quite bigger than the standard versions.
 
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