Space commercialization

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

pioneer0333

Guest
Who will become the first person to pioneer asteroid mining? The supply of metals and ore in space is very abundant, and when Earth starts to run low on these resources, we will have to look somewhere else for more. And space is the next great source. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
N

nexium

Guest
With today's technology, raw materials from space cost about $50,000 per pound, more if we have to find them and refine them. Even with space elevators, perhaps $400 per pound after you attach the pay load to the space elevator. Helium 3 looks likely, and perhaps some platimum group metals. The world price, will fall if it becomes clear that a commodity will be arriving from space in large quantities, so space miners need a sizeable margin of profit before investing billions. Neil
 
P

pioneer0333

Guest
You are under estimating the drive that humans have. I feel that the next 50 years are going to produce an explosion of high technology. That also leads me to think that space technology will explode with new and better innovations too. And as the technology makes space travel easier and easier, it will not be long afterwards that someone will realize that it will be much more profittable and efficient to just caim some huge Iron asteroid as their own over buying the limited land on Earth. There will no property disputes, fewer taxes, and no waste products or pollution will ever touch Earth.<br /><br /> The 20th century produced more in it's 100 years than any previous to it. And the 21st century will produce more than the 20th century colud ever dream of producing. I'm am just waiting for the BIG break through that will spark the boom! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
Q

qso1

Guest
Pioneer0333:<br />You are under estimating the drive that humans have...<br /><br />Me:<br />Humanities drive is tempered by cost. The expense of getting to the point of mining asteroids is what will determine when we will be able to start mining them. Eventually it will probably happen and sometime in the next 50 years is not unreasonable, but also not guaranteed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
 
P

pioneer0333

Guest
You make a real point, money will always determine what we do. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
O

observer7

Guest
Wait a minute!<br /><br />Under what authority does this person lay claim to the asteroid. Even in the American gold rush days there were laws that regulated the staking of claims. Under the Outer Space Treaty, no government can lay claim to any of the bodies in the solar system. <br /><br />What approach do we take to assigning, protecting, granting, and enforcing someones claim to mineral resources on a celstial body? This brings up another point. What do we do if (when) we have bases on the Moon and someone who has purchased one of those "novelty" deeds for land on the Moon wants to claim his/her percentage of the mineral wealth obtained from mining on his/her property. Until we have an acceptable international agreement on how the use of outer space resources will be governed, no person or corporation is going to invest in the effort, only to have their claim jumped by some legal technicalities.<br /><br />Just my two cents.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">"Time exists so that everything doesn't happen at once" </font></em><font size="2">Albert Einstein</font> </div>
 
R

robaux

Guest
<p><br />I think a critical mistake we're making here is assuming we only want to mine asteroids for Earth. It seems to me that we've got plenty of material to support whatever we may need (in terms of bulk cheap/recycleable materials such as aluminum or iron at least; rare minerals may have some demand), but these things are grossly expensive to move <font style=""> from Earth to Space</font>. <br /><p><br />If our interest in space continues to expand, if we begin to make a permanent presence there with a significant population, we are going to need a lot of the cheap crap (al, fe) for structures. This is where it will become cost effective to mine asteroids because doing so will (could, i should say) be more cost effective than moving it up from Earth. In essence, I believe that the materials industry in space will exist to support our other industries in space, our orbital "drydocks" and habitats, our oxygen and water, all of these things will be brought from the surrounding space rather than hefted on the backs of heavy boosters.</p></p>
 
P

pioneer0333

Guest
Sooner or later, space will be regulated. Corporations will be the first to lay claim to various objects (Lets never hope other planets) in space. And this is how and why I see asteroids being used in mining operations. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
O

observer7

Guest
But what is the incentive?<br /><br />Space resources are definately going to play an important role in the further development of space infrastructures. But until such time as we have cheap access, and some economic reason for being in space, no profit seeking enterprise is going to invest in mining space resources. If you want to justify going to space by saying that the resources have value on Earth that will support the investment in going and getting them, then IMO you are uninformed as to the cost/value relationship of these resources. I will see if I can find a few of the excellent economic analysis papers that have been prepared on this subject and post links.<br /><br />Please, don't get me wrong, I do want to see mining operations in space, but I realize that there has to be a better justification before it will happen.<br /><br />--<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">"Time exists so that everything doesn't happen at once" </font></em><font size="2">Albert Einstein</font> </div>
 
B

Boris_Badenov

Guest
Take a look at this website; it’s got the answers to all of the questions you asked.<br />www.permanent.com <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
P

pioneer0333

Guest
Thanks for the link. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
B

bdewoody

Guest
I think that until we find a way to re-enter the atmosphere in a way not resembling a shooting star space will remain the province of science and the military. Don't get me wrong, I'd go in a heart beat but I'm afraid most people wouldn't be able to cope with seeing what was going on during that firey return to the ground. <br /><br />I hope we discover anti-gravity (assuming it exists) real soon.<br /><br />If someone announced they had discovered an asteroid made primarily of gold or platinum we would probably see a lot of space vehicles getting designed and built. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>
 
Q

qso1

Guest
bdewoody:<br />I'd go in a heart beat but I'm afraid most people wouldn't be able to cope with seeing what was going on during that firey return to the ground.<br /><br />Me:<br />Even with that in mind, I think there would be more than enough willing folks to make that journey. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
 
B

Boris_Badenov

Guest
bdewoody<br />If someone announced they had discovered an asteroid made primarily of gold or platinum we would probably see a lot of space vehicles getting designed and built.<br /><br /> There have already been a large number of asteroids discovered that are made almost entirely of Platinum or Platinum Group metals. <br /> My belief is, the first mining to go on will be for PMG’s & volatiles at the same time. The first to make the profit, & the latter to make it profitable.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
B

bdewoody

Guest
I guess it must not be widely known. At least in history men have been willing to go places and risk everything for a chance to get rich quick. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>
 
P

pioneer0333

Guest
You're right about there be willing people. I'd go in a heart beat despite any danger(to an extent). I don't wanna just "wing it" though, it has to be controlled. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
P

pioneer0333

Guest
You are forgetting about "supply & demand". If there are rocks out there made of precious metals(in bulk), then the price of gold and the dollar will fall. Peolple and nations will search out every asteroid thinking they will get rich, but what would really happen is a global disaster. Gold is worth so much now beacause it is rare and hard to find. So rare that big corporations(working for uncle sam) are dissolving rock with chemicals, just to extract the microscopic size gold crystals. <br /><br /> If anything, we will only mine asteroids or comets for fuel, and/or building material. It's more efficient to use the materials on asteroids and comets for building in space, over bringing the materials up from Earth. But I also see corporations bringing a lot of the material to Earth just as well. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
O

observer7

Guest
--- They can't claim posession, it's true....but that doesn't meant they can't exploit them, as long as the products of that exploitation is shared. According to Article I: <br /><br />"The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind." ----<br /><br />I understand the OST and it's implications. The fact that resources can be exploited has been established by the removal of several hundred kilograms of moon rocks by the US and former USSR for scientific study. These samples are made available (although I understand it takes more to get a moon rock then something common like uranium ;-)) to the international community for study. This seems to work fine.<br /><br />But what happens if you actually invest millions of dollars in a mining operation which actually becomes profitable. Because the source of your profits is extraterestrial resources you have an obligation to share with everyone. If you don't then you spark an international incident as your country of origin (which is responsible for your companies space activities according to the OST) is in violation of the treaty.<br /><br />I still say that until the laws governing the use of space resources are modified, clarified, and solidified that no real investor is ever going to try to utilize space resources. People with big money don't take a crap unless their lawyer approves of it, and they certainly are not going to gamble on space resources because the rewards are not high enough.<br /><br />--<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">"Time exists so that everything doesn't happen at once" </font></em><font size="2">Albert Einstein</font> </div>
 
M

minotast

Guest
I hate capitalism. It's so primitive. It's all about the aristocracy under a blanket of anthropic uncertainties situated upon the freedom of doing whatever you want in life, the propaganda associating with good public morality, or the lie that prices are in fact entirely situated by the thrill of competition, profit, or supply and demand. <br /><br />In the future after six years from now, humanity will be as capitalistic altogether as Sweden. A social democracy situated on giving people as much right in economic policies as they do with governmental policies, through the act of democratic decisions. <br /><br />If there were to be any mining it would have to be superviced and allows to occur by the intergalactic confederation. Otherwise all mining facilities that were to be constructed would instantly be terminated. <br /><br />If you don't believe me, wait six years from now and ask for yourselves.
 
B

Boris_Badenov

Guest
Of course it’s not widely known, only us space GEEKS are familiar with this stuff. One of the things that Space X wants to go after is a several mile wide asteroid that is made up almost entirely PGM’s; it has more platinum than all the metal mined in the history of mankind!!! That’s all metals combined. It is just very hard to get to. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
B

Boris_Badenov

Guest
You are absolutely correct, most of the materials mined in space, will be used in space, the law of supply & demand will still rule, only the metals that are in demand will be shipped back to Earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
B

Boris_Badenov

Guest
Boy, are you full of @#$%^&*!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
B

Boris_Badenov

Guest
Thank you Eddie, this guy is a jerk!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY

Latest posts