Space Firefighters Needed?

[nexius]

If theirs no oxygen in space well atleast not enough for us, how when I watch "Armageddon" is everything blowing up with fire shooting everywere? I didnt think you could have open flame in space.

 

[MeteorWayne]

IOAM <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[oscar1]

That has to do with the anthropic principle I have you know. Had there not been enough sparks and subsequent flames shown in that flick, you would likely not have watched it! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[nexius]

so indeed their cant be fire in space?

 

[SpeedFreek]

Well, not in the conventional sense. Fire is the combustion of a gas (not always oxygen).<br /><br />But, stars could be said to be fires in space <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>

 

[Mee_n_Mac]

<font color="yellow"><i>"so indeed their cant be fire in space?"</i></font><br /><br />Sure there can be fire (in the conventional sense) but you have to supply the oxygen. Getting a fire started and keeping it burning might be hard to do. You might want to investigate hypergolic rocket fuels if you're curious. The kind of stuff you see in most movies is just Hollywood fiction. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-----------------------------------------------------</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, <strong>STOP</strong> !</font></p> </div>

 

[SpeedFreek]

Ok well of course you can make things burn in a vacuum, by constantly supplying fuel. But the fire dies as soon as the fuel is spent. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>

 

[nexius]

Yea I see thanks guys

 

[MeteorWayne]

Actually, you must supply fuel AND oxygen.<br />Or other reactive substances. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[nexius]

:- so if we went on the sun and lit a flame it would light because of the high concentration of hydrogen?

 

[MeteorWayne]

It would probably ignite from the incineration of yer finger <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[nexius]

lol ouch

 

[pyoko]

I guess a huge container-full of almost pure oxygen AND liquid oxygen tanks (huge ones) ie. a ship or a space station, can produce much more of a bang up there than down here (with mostly nitrogen being used to breathe).<br /><br />Ever seen the caution signs about explosive stmospheres in hospitals where pure oxygen was being utilised? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Armageddon was "Die Hard" in space. That explains massive fiery explosions in space. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Your match would turn into plasma long before you got to any hydrogen. However, if you went someplace cooler that had plenty of hyrdogen, say Jupiter, you would run into another problem: lack of oxider (oxygen). Remember the triangle rule of fires. You need fuel, ignition source, <font color="yellow">and</font>oxygen. If you have only two of those, no fire. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

If you had a source of oxygen and an ignition source, then yes, stuff on the outside of the craft might burn. The oxygen source could be either an atmospheric hull breach or an Apollo 13-style burst tank. The ignition source could be a very long list of items. Most of those could not ignite anything without some atmosphere, however temporary, around them. Please note that the fire stops as soon as the oxygen source stops.<br /><br />You mentioned <i>Armageddon</i>. I was thinking of an episode of the original (not the recent imitation) <i>Battlestar Galatica</i>. In that episode, a fire breaks out that is both outside and inside the hull. The parts outside had to be fought from the outside. They end up solving the problem by creating new hull ruptures where there is no fire yet. That deprives the fire of its oxygen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[nexius]

So I guess we can conclude that we wont need to employ firefighters in space.

 

[nexium]

On Earth fire burns when hot fuel contacts hot oxygen (or other oxidizer) at 0.21 barr partial pressure and one g gravity. Lower pressure (or gravity) reduces probability of sustained fire, so we can expect fire outside the space craft to last less than one second. Inside a space craft (with an oxygen atmosphere) however, we typically can have a fire that lasts minutes (rarely hours) especially if the craft has artificial gravity and/or is acellerating. Combustion gases are likely to overwhelm the air purifing system, so even a small brief fire is a health hazzard for the people aboard. Air circulation systems can partly offset the need for gravity = convection. Neil