Ah geez, orrery, are you off your meds again? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Remember when we had a nice rational debate on ISS? You seemed to come to understand that those who disagree with you are not naïve propagandists and idiots. But here you are calling people names again. You made your points about ISS on that thread, – namely that no one can demonstrate cost-effectiveness with regard to ISS. Here, you’re back to the weaker parts of your argument.<br /><br />You did not in any way address mattblack’s reasons for why it is ultimately worth doing. Dude, you are losing this debate badly. (BTW, calling a guy known for being a voice of reason around here an idiot is a big mistake.) You start with your anti-UN dogma and end up with an alternate proposal from fantasy land. You’re saying that we can snap our fingers, throw ISS money at it, and CEV will become operational in 2006? <br /><br />You continue to use the fallacy of reallocation of STS/ISS funds. That’s just ignorant of the real-world situation with NASA’s budget right now. Remember the budget reality thing that Griffin did? He told Congress that NASA is going to build CEV as fast as they can, nothing is more important than developing CEV, and that Congress needs to allocate more funds for STS/ISS. Absorb that for a second, why doncha? <br /><br />Indeed, the choice is on the table to cancel ISS. BUT CEV IS ALREADY FULLY FUNDED. So even if Congress makes the incredibly brave move of actually shutting down ISS – which WILL NOT HAPPEN – to make a difference in the CEV program they would then have to allocate more money to NASA right after they cancelled ISS. Those congresscritters may not understand the technical stuff, but they know a losing political proposition when they see it. They would find it impossible to explain to their constituents. <br /><br />You claim that ISS will bankrupt other programs. You are living in the past. That is the hidden ugly legacy of ISS to date, but Dr. Griffin is the new <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>