<p>http://www.space.com/news/080423-nasa-spacex-launch-contract.html</p><p> </p><p>This is a big vote of confidence in the SpaceX family of vehicles, and it represents a new day for the space community. I beleive this could lead to the cancellation of the Ares 1. </p>
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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://www.space.com/news/080423-nasa-spacex-launch-contract.htmlThis is a big vote of confidence in the SpaceX family of vehicles, and it represents a new day for the space community. I beleive this could lead to the cancellation of the Ares 1. <br /> Posted by job1207</DIV></p><p> </p><p>You are over blowing this. This is no where the end of Ares. This has nothing to do with Constellation. All it means is that spacex can proposed to launch NASA's unmanned spacecraft. It still has to compete on a launch by launch basis with ULA and OSC. Spacex could only come away with only the $20K minimum. The vehicles still have to be cerified by NASA for use on its spacecraft</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p>The F9H is supposed to put 12 tons in GTO. Is there a rule of thumb for mass to Mars from mass to GTO/LEO?</p><p> I'm sorry.. I only realized now that F9 is very small compared to AresV. I suppose there's a good chance an F9H's payload to Mars would be very small, if even possible. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p>But then F9H isn't being built for that mission, is it?</p><p>Since 2005 Musk has said that if SpaceX has customer demand for missions requiring a super-heavy it would build what has been called the BFR; Big Falcon Rocket - presuming you foolishly belief "F" really stands for "Falcon" <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> </p><p>BFR would use an F1 (Saturn V) class engine based on an evolved Merln design.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>But then F9H isn't being built for that mission, is it?Since 2005 Musk has said that if SpaceX has customer demand for missions requiring a super-heavy it would build what has been called the BFR; Big Falcon Rocket - presuming you foolishly belief "F" really stands for "Falcon" BFR would use an F1 (Saturn V) class engine based on an evolved Merln design. <br /> Posted by docm</DIV>Yes, I read about the BFR, noticed the diameter of an F9, and saw a picture of someone standing next to one all at once, just after posting.. </p><p>I hope they get enough orders for it. 500 bucks per kilo is quite a progress 
</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div><p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://www.space.com/news/080423-nasa-spacex-launch-contract.htmlThis is a big vote of confidence in the SpaceX family of vehicles, and it represents a new day for the space community. I beleive this could lead to the cancellation of the Ares 1. <br /> Posted by job1207</DIV></p><p>Now if they could only get the damned thing to work... (here's hoping) </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>
<p>I am surprised that I did not get any dissenters regarding the notion that Ares I would be cancelled if the Dragon works. It seems to make sense, since it is cheaper, and will be ready LONG before the scheduled date for Ares I. </p><p> </p><p>I thought that the BFR was THREE F9s strapped together. I could be wrong. </p>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The F9H is supposed to put 12 tons in GTO. Is there a rule of thumb for mass to Mars from mass to GTO/LEO? I'm sorry.. I only realized now that F9 is very small compared to AresV. I suppose there's a good chance an F9H's payload to Mars would be very small, if even possible. <br />Posted by nimbus</DIV><br /><br />There is no rule of thumb per se. However, if you run the numbers through the rocket equation for a delta-v estimate from LEO to MEO of 6 km/s and an Isp = 450 s (H2/O2 chemical), you get about 25% of what you had in LEO to MEO. </p><p>Also, a good friend of mine recently published an article in the Journal of Spacecraft and Rockets that concludes that for a 20 to 100 tonne MEO payload you will get 5 - 25 tonnes to the surface. This is for traditional capsule manned type missions. It is however, also a lot lower than most estimates used for manned Mars missions. </p><p>Compounding the two factors you'll get about 1/16th the mass you had at LEO to the surface of Mars.</p><p>As for the F1, F9, etc. I will believe it when I see it. They have spent a lot of time trying to get the F1 working but I sure hope they do. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> kosmichero.wordpress.com </div>
Elon had made some statements about SpaceX's plan to be with NASA to the moon, mars, and beyond. The spaceports blog made mention of this. I think that Elon has a plan thats much bigger than what he is saying to the press or to NASA. Imagine if he hooks up with Stone Aerospace down in Austin and the Space Prize act gets passed. They would be on the moon in no time. Read the text of the space prize at my blog. Its before the congress right now. How does your legislator feel about it? Will they pass it? Be sure to tell them to. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
Its a vote of cinfidence to counterbalance the vote of no confidence that NASA administrator griffin said a week or so ago when he said that they werent counting on crewed transport to the station.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I thought that the BFR was THREE F9s strapped together. I could be wrong. <br />Posted by job1207</DIV></p><p>The Falcon 9 Heavy is 3 Falcon 9's strapped together, not the BFR. Proof is on their site;</p><p>http://spacex.com/falcon9_heavy.php</p><p><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/1/4fcf465b-04d4-4469-9143-ba952578d0f9.Medium.gif" alt="" /><br /><br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The Falcon 9 Heavy is 3 Falcon 9's strapped together, not the BFR. Proof is on their site;http://spacex.com/falcon9_heavy.php <br /> Posted by docm</DIV></p><p>Right, I knew it was something like that. Let's just hope that they get the Falcon 9 up and running.... </p>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I am surprised that I did not get any dissenters regarding the notion that Ares I would be cancelled if the Dragon works. It seems to make sense, since it is cheaper, and will be ready LONG before the scheduled date for Ares I. I thought that the BFR was THREE F9s strapped together. I could be wrong. <br /> Posted by job1207</DIV></p><p>Ares I and Dragon are not related. One is a launch vehicle and the other a spacecraft. </p><p> Even if Ares I has issues, gets canceled, etc, still leaves the Orion (CEV). It could be launched by an EELV.</p><p>As for Dragon, it is just plain BS to think of it as a replacement. Why do people think it is a given?</p><p>Spacex has yet to fly one small rocket successfully, much less a much larger rocket, an unmanned cargo vehicle or a manned vehicle.</p><p> Who says it will be cheaper and ready sooner? Drinking that koolade?</p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Its a vote of cinfidence to counterbalance the vote of no confidence that NASA administrator griffin said a week or so ago when he said that they werent counting on crewed transport to the station. <br /> Posted by actionforspacedotcom</DIV></p><p> It is not a vote of confidence. They submitted an acceptable proposal that only allows them to compete for missions. It doesn't say the vehicles are acceptable. </p><p>They still have to fly successful missions and be certified before NASA can use one. </p><p>http://nodis3.gsfc.nasa.gov/displayDir.cfm?t=NPD&c=8610&s=7D</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Elon had made some statements about SpaceX's plan to be with NASA to the moon, mars, and beyond. The spaceports blog made mention of this. I think that Elon has a plan thats much bigger than what he is saying to the press or to NASA. Imagine if he hooks up with Stone Aerospace down in Austin and the Space Prize act gets passed. They would be on the moon in no time. Read the text of the space prize at my blog. Its before the congress right now. How does your legislator feel about it? Will they pass it? Be sure to tell them to. <br /> Posted by actionforspacedotcom</DIV></p><p> Let's be realistic and stop chugging the koolade. Spacex hasn't launched one vehicle yet.</p><p> Yep, we have lost two games and we should win the next one. Our little running back is coming around slowly, he should help win the next one. But just wait, we are bringing along a bigger guy, once he is ready, we should be winning. With all this, we will be in the Super Bowl this year. </p><p> Would you believe these from an owner of an first year NFL expansion team?</p><p>Why should you believe Elon? </p><p> </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There is no rule of thumb per se. However, if you run the numbers through the rocket equation for a delta-v estimate from LEO to MEO of 6 km/s and an Isp = 450 s (H2/O2 chemical), you get about 25% of what you had in LEO to MEO. Also, a good friend of mine recently published an article in the Journal of Spacecraft and Rockets that concludes that for a 20 to 100 tonne MEO payload you will get 5 - 25 tonnes to the surface. This is for traditional capsule manned type missions. It is however, also a lot lower than most estimates used for manned Mars missions. Compounding the two factors you'll get about 1/16th the mass you had at LEO to the surface of Mars. <br /> Posted by KosmicHero</DIV><br />That's what I was looking for, thank you. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I am surprised that I did not get any dissenters regarding the notion that Ares I would be cancelled if the Dragon works. It seems to make sense, since it is cheaper, and will be ready LONG before the scheduled date for Ares I. I thought that the BFR was THREE F9s strapped together. I could be wrong. <br /> Posted by job1207</DIV></p><p> </p><p>What seems interesting is that NASA may be considering Dragon as a means to ISS for the 'gap' period (from STS decomission to Constellation flights). If SpaceX does perform well with its launchers and Dragon, then NASA may even 'replace' Orion with Dragon for Low Earth Orbit missions. So in a way I share your view.</p><p>On the other hand, Orion has a bigger job than Dragon, and that is to go to the Moon and Mars, which Dragon is just not designed to do.</p><p>So I'm crossing my fingers hoping that SpaceX comes through. I would love to see the day that NASA starts to depend on commercial space to access space and becomes more of a research and support for manned space. </p><p> </p><p>P.S. 'Dissenters'? WOW, I would expect General Napoleon to use such a term. Your not a little general commanding a world power army are you? </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
<font size="3">Maybe he was expecting Jim to show up again</font> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Maybe he was expecting Jim to show up again <br />Posted by docm</DIV><br /><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Maybe he was expecting Jim to show up again <br /> Posted by docm</DIV></p><p>I am here. See above. Spent over a year working on the team to get this done<br /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Maybe he was expecting Jim to show up again <br />Posted by docm</DIV></p><p> </p><p>I enjoyed arguing with Jim, in his various incognito's <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> Unfortunatly, he only had a 2 word vocabulary, "Can't do".....<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
<p>I am surprised that I did not get any dissenters regarding the notion that Ares I would be cancelled if the Dragon works. It seems to make sense, since it is cheaper, and will be ready LONG before the scheduled date for Ares I.</p><p>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>I thought NASA was using the Ares I and Orion ?</p><p>But they still have to build it and test it before it is in service.</p><p>Look at this.</p><p><font face="Arial"><strong>October 4, 1957</strong> - <em>Sputnik 1</em>, the first man-made object to orbit the Earth, is launched by the U.S.S.R., and remains in orbit until January 4, 1958.<br /><strong>November 3, 1957</strong> - <em>Sputnik 2</em>, carrying the dog Laika for 7 days in orbit, is launched by the U.S.S.R., and remains in orbit until April 13, 1958</font></p><p><font face="Arial"><strong>July 20, 1969</strong> - Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, Jr. make the first manned soft landing on the Moon, and the first moonwalk, using <em>Apollo 11</em>.</font></p><p><font face="Arial">12 years to learn how to get in space and go to the moon .And it takes 15 years now and we are WAY MORE Advance technology and engineering so on.</font></p><p>http://my.execpc.com/~culp/space/timeline.html</p><p>Some thing is not right. </p><p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Elon had made some statements about SpaceX's plan to be with NASA to the moon, mars, and beyond. The spaceports blog made mention of this. I think that Elon has a plan thats much bigger than what he is saying to the press or to NASA. Imagine if he hooks up with Stone Aerospace down in Austin and the Space Prize act gets passed. They would be on the moon in no time. Read the text of the space prize at my blog. Its before the congress right now. How does your legislator feel about it? Will they pass it? Be sure to tell them to. <br />Posted by actionforspacedotcom</DIV></p><p>How so and so soon? And what is Stone Aerospace?</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://www.space.com/news/080423-nasa-spacex-launch-contract.htmlThis is a big vote of confidence in the SpaceX family of vehicles, and it represents a new day for the space community. I beleive this could lead to the cancellation of the Ares 1. <br />Posted by job1207</DIV></p><p>And all the billions of money NASA has spend on the Ares 1 to do away with it? I would like corporation to spend billions of money and almost 20% done and do away with the project!!</p><p> No in other words that corporation teach congressman how to use money.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://www.space.com/news/080423-nasa-spacex-launch-contract.htmlThis is a big vote of confidence in the SpaceX family of vehicles, and it represents a new day for the space community. I beleive this could lead to the cancellation of the Ares 1. <br /> Posted by job1207</DIV></p><p> </p><p> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">Yo</span>u are over blowing this. This is no where the end of Ares. This has nothing to do with Constellation. All it means is that spacex can proposed to launch NASA's unmanned spacecraft. It still has to compete on a launch by launch basis with ULA and OSC. Spacex could only come away with only the $20K minimum. The vehicles still have to be cerified by NASA for use on its spacecraft</p> <p>Ares I and Dragon are not related. One is a launch vehicle and the other a spacecraft. </p> <p> Even if Ares I has issues, gets canceled, etc, still leaves the Orion (CEV). It could be launched by an EELV.</p> <p>As for Dragon, it is just plain BS to think of it as a replacement. Why do people think it is a given?</p> <p>Spacex has yet to fly one small rocket successfully, much less a much larger rocket, an unmanned cargo vehicle or a manned vehicle.</p> <p> Who says it will be cheaper and ready sooner? Drinking that koolade?</p> <p><br /></p>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I enjoyed arguing with Jim, in his various incognito's Unfortunatly, he only had a 2 word vocabulary, "Can't do"..... <br /> Posted by kyle_baron</DIV></p><p> It wasn't "Can't do.....", it was "can't happen...", because you never proposed anything that was viable or even possible. </p>
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