SpaceX Conducts First Three Engine Test Fire

Swampcat · Mar 27, 2008

Got an e-mail update from SpaceX today:SpaceX Update(SpaceX) conducted the first three-engine firing of its Falcon 9 medium to heavy lift rocket at its Texas Test Facility outside McGregor, on March 8, 2008. At full power the engines generated over 270,000 pounds of force, and consumed 1,050 lbs of fuel and liquid oxygen per second. This three-engine test again sets the record as the most powerful test yet on the towering 235-foot tall test stand. A total of nine Merlin 1C engines will power the Falcon 9 rocket. The test series continues with the addition of two engines for a total of five, then finally the full complement of nine engines. With all engines firing, the Falcon 9 can generate over one million pounds of thrust in vacuum - four times the maximum thrust of a 747 aircraft. “The incremental approach to testing allows us to closely observe how each additional engine influences the entire system,” said Tom Mueller, Vice President of Propulsion for SpaceX. “This ensures that we obtain as much data, knowledge and experience as possible as we approach the full nine engine configuration. To date we have not encountered any unexpected interactions between the engines.” The Merlin 1C next generation liquid fueled rocket booster engine is among the highest performing gas generator cycle kerosene engines ever built, exceeding the Boeing Delta II main engine, the Lockheed Atlas II main engine, and on par with the Saturn V F-1 engine. It is the first new American booster engine in a decade and only the second American booster engine since the development of the Space Shuttle Main Engine thirty years ago. The first Falcon 9 remains on-schedule for delivery to the SpaceX launch site at Space Launch Complex 40, Cape Canaveral, Florida, by the end of 2008.There are videos here. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

qso1 · Mar 27, 2008

Very nice. I like seeing private industry efforts succeed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

nec208 · Mar 28, 2008

The first Falcon 9 remains on-schedule for delivery to the SpaceX launch site at Space Launch Complex 40, Cape Canaveral, Florida, by the end of 2008.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------But this is where the real testing comes in and than they have to Launch  it<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" title="Surprised" />If all goes well you still going to need 100 or more test launch  before it is in service. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Swampcat · Mar 28, 2008

"If all goes well you still going to need 100 or more test launch  before it is in service." -- nec208Hardly. Mr. Musk couldn't afford to stay in business long enough for that.Look at the Falcon 9 launch manifest...paying customers starting on the second flight. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

nec208 · Mar 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>"If all goes well you still going to need 100 or more test launch  before it is in service." -- nec208Hardly. Mr. Musk couldn't afford to stay in business long enough for that.Look at the Falcon 9 launch manifest...paying customers starting on the second flight. Posted by Swampcat</DIV>okay it is saying 3 customers in 2008 and 5 in 2009.And 3 in 2010.But they seem to be flight testers.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Swampcat · Mar 29, 2008

"But they seem [emphasis added] to be flight testers." -- nec208Subjective opinion. Of course, these early flights will be tests of a sort, but whether you call them flight tests or operational flights would depend on whether they are successful or not. A failure is called a flight test <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />. A success is an operational flight and makes everybody happy. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />BTW, I count one Falcon 9 in 2008, four in 2009 and one in 2010. The other flights on the manifest are for Falcon 1. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

qso1 · Mar 29, 2008

okay it is saying 3 customers in 2008 and 5 in 2009.And 3 in 2010.But they seem to be flight testers. Posted by nec208The way rockets are flight tested by NASA are usually 1 or 2 tests before going into operational service. A private company could afford no more than that number I would think. Once they start flying payloads for paying customers, the rocket is operational. Otherwise, how many customers are going to pay millions to put their payload on a test flight?  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

scottb50 · Mar 30, 2008

service. A private company could afford no more than that number I would think. Once they start flying payloads for paying customers, the rocket is operational. Otherwise, how many customers are going to pay millions to put their payload on a test flight?>> That pretty much depends on the insurers. It's one thing to launch a Shuttle the first time and consider the next launch operational and another to launch a commercial vehicle once and consider the next an operational launch. What you have to look at is the previous commercial launches and how they were rated by the insurance industry, if the Delta V can launch once with an inert, or government payload it can be insured for a commercial launch. It should be no different for SpaceX.What happens is the same thing Beach ran into with the Starship and Lear with the Lear Fan, since they were such a leap in technology, once they meet a requirement another was required. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

nec208 · Mar 30, 2008

What you have to look at is the previous commercial launches and how they were rated by the insurance industry, if the Delta V can launch once with an inert, or government payload it can be insured for a commercial launch. It should be no different for SpaceX.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wow thats cold.Most every thing else on earth is tested over and over.Say a new car or new airbus , all the hours before it goes into service. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------What happens is the same thing Beach ran into with the Starship and Lear with the Lear Fan, since they were such a leap in technology, once they meet a requirement another was required. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Who is Lear Fan or Starship ?   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

nec208 · Mar 30, 2008

[Of course, these early flights will be tests of a sort, but whether you call them flight tests or operational flights would depend on whether they are successful or not. A failure is called a flight test <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />. A success is an operational flight and makes everybody happy. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------So those flights is it payload or customers? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

scottb50 · Mar 30, 2008

Who is Lear Fan or Starship ?  Posted by nec208[/QUOTE] They were two early composite construction airplanes back in the 80's. Bill Lear developed the 8 track tape player and a lot of other things, includinng the Lear Jet and the Challenger, both still around in a number of different versions and sizes. The Starship was Beachcraft's revolutionary design to replace the Kingair.What happened is the FAA would set a requirement and when it was met they would alter it or add another. This had two major effects the development time went on and on and the cost got out of hand, what happened to Lear, and the weight of the aircraft got so excessive it lost it's advantage over other designs, what happened to the Starship.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

spacester · Mar 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wow thats cold.Most every thing else on earth is tested over and over.Say a new car or new airbus , all the hours before it goes into service.   Posted by nec208</DIV>HeheheThe story is about the extensive testing program being performed, and you are arguing that they are going to fly untested rockets.You are so off the mark in your evaluation of SpaceX. Have you even visited their website? Are you saying that it's all a big lie? Do you have a point? It makes it much nicer for everyone when you have a point.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Swampcat · Mar 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wow thats cold.Most every thing else on earth is tested over and over.Say a new car or new airbus , all the hours before it goes into service. Who is Lear Fan or Starship ?  Posted by nec208</DIV> Who said they are not tested?Consider that the STS was launched on its first mission having never flown before...and with two astronauts on board. Do you think they didn't test everything in anyway they could think of before doing that? Of course they couldn't test a full up launch without actually doing a full up launch. At some point you just have to light the candle and hope you've thought of everything needed to make the launch a success. It's not like airplanes and cars. They're reusable. Launch vehicles, like Delta, Atlas and Falcon are not.OT, but...Lear FanBeech Starship You might consider learning about Google <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Mar 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So those flights is it payload or customers? Posted by nec208</DIV> Some are for paying customers and some are tests for COTS. All will have payloads. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

nec208 · Mar 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Who said they are not tested?Consider that the STS was launched on its first mission having never flown before...and with two astronauts on board. Do you think they didn't test everything in anyway they could think of before doing that? Of course they couldn't test a full up launch without actually doing a full up launch. At some point you just have to light the candle and hope you've thought of everything needed to make the launch a success. It's not like airplanes and cars. They're reusable. Launch vehicles, like Delta, Atlas and Falcon are not.OT, but...Lear FanBeech Starship You might consider learning about Google Posted by Swampcat</DIV> No what I mean by testing is going to space 50 or 100 times.There is only so much testing you can do on the ground.But like others here are saying rockets are not like other things on earth you can test 50 or 100 times do to cost. So its like test it 2 times and hope it works after.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

nec208 · Mar 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>HeheheThe story is about the extensive testing program being performed, and you are arguing that they are going to fly untested rockets.You are so off the mark in your evaluation of SpaceX. Have you even visited their website? Are you saying that it's all a big lie? Do you have a point? It makes it much nicer for everyone when you have a point.  Posted by Spacester</DIV> The artical is talking about apples ,I'm talking about oranges.None of what you said is what I typed.There seems to be a communication breakdown understanding my post here in addition to replies to my post..  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

qso1 · Mar 31, 2008

No what I mean by testing is going to space 50 or 100 times.There is only so much testing you can do on the ground.But like others here are saying rockets are not like other things on earth you can test 50 or 100 times do to cost. So its like test it 2 times and hope it works after. Posted by nec208To maybe give you a better idea about rocket testing, not very many rockets have been operational long enough to see 100-200 flights. The Saturn series for one. The Saturn V flew 13 times, 2 of which were test flights. 9 Saturn 1bs were launched, 3 of those test flights. Saturn 1, 10 flown and oddly enough, the first 4 were test flights. The shuttle, 125 or more flights, the first 4 were considered test flights while all that followed were operational flights.Delta rockets on the other hand, have flown well over 300 flights by now but even they were only tested a few times at most before being considered operational. Much of rocket testing is also at the subassembly level which makes it easier to all up test. If your parts have already been throught the wringer by the time you all up test, your confidence in an all up test can be higher.Considering the cost of rockets, especially larger more complex ones. Ground testing is more cost effective than repeated space testing. I know of no launch vehicle flight tested anywhere near 50 to 100 times before going operational. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

nec208 · Apr 1, 2008

To maybe give you a better idea about rocket testing, not very many rockets have been operational long enough to see 100-200 flights. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Why do they have to keep changing for new rockets? Build 5 rockets types and that is good enough for 30 years.Why build a rocket to use it for such a small amout? All the development,design,testing so on for such little use.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

qso1 · Apr 1, 2008

Actually, most of the rockets of the 1950s are still in operation, tho barely recognizeable today than they were then. Some rockets were limited in what they were used for. The Saturn no longer exists in any form because it was specifically dedicated to achieving the Kennedy lunar goal but...The Saturn 1 was known as "Clusters last stand" because its first stage was a cluster of redstone rockets stretched a little longer for use in the early Saturn 1 series, even the 1B. Look at a Saturn 1 or 1B first stage and notice it is unusual in that it is made up of thin tanks rather than one large diameter tank. Redstone tankage designed to keep Saturn development costs down.But when the Saturn V came along, it was no longer practical to cluster any rockets to form a first stage for that beast.The Saturn 1b second stage is actually essentially the same stage that was called the S-IVB on the Saturn-V.  Then when you look at Von Brauns post Apollo plans, you will see extensive use and modifications of Saturn-V rockets for use to support that plan. No brand new rockets.But the Von Braun plan was axed so there was no longer any real use for gigantic Saturn-V rockets. Even Americas first space station, Skylab, was a Saturn S-IVB stage converted to a lab and launched by the only two stage Saturn-V ever flown.Delta rockets have been operational since 1960 and originated IIRC, as Thor Delta rockets. The rockets grow as their payload requirements grow. But for most rockets such as the Delta or Atlas. The payload requirements never got that large until the Delta IV heavy or Atlas V heavy was required for certain larger payloads.Like cars, you can actually look at rocket families and see their lineage. Especially in the first stages. This was true of Delta and Atlas only until the rocket payload requirements caused the rockets to outgrow their first stages. Titan rockets utilized the same core vehicle since the Titan I or II. Just more powerful engines, upper stages and strap on boosters from the Titan III up. Not only that, NASA has pursued the holy grail of spaceflight almost since its inception. An SSTO. After Apollo, the most sensible course in a scaled back future NASA seemed to be a reusable shuttle.A fully reusable system was initially proposed but up front development costs killed that idea. This lead to the system we now have. A partially reusable system and one that turned out to be economically not much better than throw away rockets.Even the Ares rockets for the Constellation are SDVs or shuttle derived vehicles.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

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