SpaceX VS Northrop

[yree]

3:50 pm: A David and Goliath battle... There is an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal today - Can Defense Contractors Police Their Rivals Without Conflicts? - about a conflict between SpaceX and Northrop.<br /><br />Due to a lack of in-house expertise, Pentagon often hires aerospace contractors to do evaluations of projects carried out by other aerospace contractors. The potential for conflicts of interest has grown as the number of companies has decreased.<br /><br />Northrop was hired to evaluate the Falcon I for launching military payloads. Northrop bought out TRW a few years ago and several people formerly at TRW now work for SpaceX. It appears that information learned from the evaluation led Northrop to accuse SpaceX of using proprietary information on pintle-injector technology developed at TRW.<br /><br />SpaceX denies that it used any proprietary information and both companies have lawsuits against each other over the dispute. There is supposed to be "firewall" between the Northrop group doing the evaluations and the rest of the company. Northrop stands to lose out on other consulting contracts if it appears that it can't be trusted to keep confidential the information that it learns about competitors.<br /><br />From the article it seems that SpaceX has the stronger position and the dispute might get settled out of court.<br /><br />Apparently, the delay in the first launch of the Falcon I is not due just to technical difficulties. The article indicates that because of the dispute "the Air Force hasn't given the green light for SpaceX's first launch, which has been rescheduled for sometime next year."<br /><br />Also, the pintle system wasn't a great bonus to the project anyway. The article says Elon Musk<br /><br /> now regrets choosing the pintle technology -- but not because of the legal problems it spawned. Contrary to Northrop's claim that trade secrets enabled SpaceX to develop an engine in mere months, SpaceX hasn't achieved the performance it see

 

[bobvanx]

Poor Elon.<br /><br />I know that appears facetious, but any of us who have been following the aerospace industry for any length of time know that the biggest obstacle to orbit is all the politics and intrigue. Building the vehicle has become the easy part. Filing all the paperwork, greasing the right palms, holding your turf, protecting your IP, all of that is the part that keeps us bound to this rock.<br /><br />I really admire Mr. Musk for taking all this on, and I hope other forces ease up a bit (not in terms of safety, but just in terms of "protection") and let him succeed.

 

[crossovermaniac]

And in a related story, the Pentagon is now hiring Al Quada terrorists as airport security guards.

 

[soyuztma]

SpaceX seems to have bought a 10% stake in Surrey Satellite Technology. <br />Surrey Satellite Technology Limited sells stake to SpaceX<br />This seems like a strange move for SpaceX. They seem to think that the market for their Falcon I vehicle isn't growing fast enough, so they have to create a market. But is does indicate that they have enough money to overcome the troubles with their Falcon I. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nacnud]

Yay for SSTL, used to walk past them every day <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[yurkin]

I think this is also why SpaceX plans to launch the FalconV by this year’s end. There’s just not enough of a market to make the Falcon sustainable. It’s really just there to prove to creditors that they can do what they are saying they will.

 

[mikejz]

Knowing who owns SpaceX, I'm not so sure debt finanncing was exactly required to start the company......

 

[yurkin]

I should have said potential future creditors. <br />Building the FalconV is out of reach of even Mr. Musk’s sizable funds.<br />

 

[mikejz]

True to an extent....From a lot of my reading of SpaceX.com the Falcon I is highly scalable to the V. Basically the only 'new' part of it is the physical structure. The Merlin engines, turbopumps, and guidence system are the same. <br /><br />SpaceX is stating the on the Falcon I at this point it will only really breakeven, so hopefully the Falcon V can generate some cash to plow back into newer and better stuff.

 

[crossovermaniac]

<font color="yellow">Uh...... Huh?</font><br /><br />Sacasm denoting the stupidity of putting a rival company in a position to rate and critique the work of their rivals. Space X is being royally screwed by letting Northurp-Gumman evaluate the Falcon I.

 

[mrmorris]

Well, according to RLV News (and thence according to SDC SpaceNews -- the subscription-only portion) -- SpaceX and Northrop have dropped lawsuits against each other over improper access to each other's technology: SpaceX, Northrop Grumman Drop Legal Dispute Over Falcon - Space News - Feb.2.05 (subscription only). <br /><br />Maybe now the Falcon I will fly!

 

[propforce]

<i>".... said <b>Gwynne Shotwell</b>, SpaceX Vice president of Business Development..."</i><br /><br />I see that Gwynne finally got married. <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[wvbraun]

"Maybe now the Falcon I will fly!"<br /><br />I don't think the legal dispute would have kept it grounded.

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"I don't think the legal dispute would have kept it grounded. "</font><br /><br />I suppose you could be correct, and the original WSJ article wrong. From that article, reprinted here:<br /><br /><i>"Partly because of the dispute, the Air Force hasn't given the green light for SpaceX's first launch, which has been rescheduled for sometime next year. "</i><br />

 

[grooble]

Any ideas on when it will launch?

 

[mrmorris]

<br />No more than anyone else. March is the current date, but it's been rescheduled several times. However, at this time, the bird is on the pad, they've done their full-length engine tests, and the legal disputes are gone. I don't know of any other obstacles -- but then I'm not exactly a SpaceX insider, just a very interested outsider.

 

[soyuztma]

There's a new update at the Spacex site.<br />Maybe it's because of the legal problems that it has taken so long for a new update to appear. Maybe they didn't want to give them to much info.<br />But it is an interesting update. Some nice pictures and a video of a full duration burn of the merlin engine. He also gives some hints about their future plans (or dreams <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> ): he talks about an F-1 class engine. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aaron38]

Does anyone have any new info on the Falcon I planned launch date? The last I heard was a March launch. Are they still on track for this?<br />

 

[wvbraun]

I don't think so. It seems they're taking their time to make sure that everything goes according to plan.

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"The last I heard was a March launch. Are they still on track for this? "</font><br /><br />*sigh* -- apparently not. From RLV News:<br /><br /><i>"Falcon I delay ... This week's print edition of Space News reports that the SpaceX Falcon I launch will be delayed till at least May. The main holdup is the need for additional testing of the thrust termination system. This system is used rather than explosives to abort the launcher if a problem occurs. It will offer lower operational costs and will significantly reduce the time needed for launch preparation. However, the initial cost is higher and more testing is required to meet Air Force standards. SpaceX hopes to carry out a pad test at Vandenberg in about 4 weeks with a 5 second firing of the main engine."</i>

 

[spacefire]

Northrop has been suing a lot lately.(Ubifsoft got sued over their usage of 'proprietary' information dating back from WW2 in their game Pacific Fighters)<br />NGC must be close to bankruptcy and in desperate need of cash which they hope to get easily through frivolous lawsuits.<br />Either that or they have somebody on a big ego-power trip in their legal department.<br />Anybody from Northrop here who cares to shed light into this attempt of the big aerospace company to become a target of ridicule? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>