STS-117 (13A) Mission- Part III

[MeteorWayne]

This thread is a continuation of the very busy mission thread<br /><br /> Link to Part I <br /><br />Link to Part II <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[ckikilwai]

Thanks for the translation DanIKo!<br /><br />NASA TV seems to work again for wmp, glad that happened because realplayer doesn't work on my computer.<br /><br />Next mission status briefing will be at 4 pm EDT or 20h00 GMT. I'm curious what they have in mind for the next days. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[MeteorWayne]

They are camping out tonight, so as we all expected, tomorrows EVA will take place. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Suni is calibrating the scopemeter?<br />Huh?<br /><br />As a metrologist, I find that very odd.<br /><br />Perhaps it is using the self-calibration funtion that is on all Tek scopes, but that's something that should be NIST traceably calibrated regularly.<br />After all it's a rather stressful environment.<br /><br />Makes me wonder about the calibration question I asked yesterday! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I mean I know the sticker weighs a bit <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> but..... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Testing]

Wayne, do you really think they would use an uncallibrated instrument? Also, it has a com port, it can be calibrated from the ground. She is most likely verifying calibration, a reality check as we all do with an ohmeter. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I just don't know if they would or not.<br />I don't ASSume anything until shown otherwise.<br /><br />The com port access can do nothing to calibrate, since what you are calibrating is the Analog to Digital converters, and timing.<br /><br />That has to be done with known sources.<br /><br />If it is a Tek scope, there is a calibration signal of reasonably accurate amplitude and frequency. I'm sure most other manufacturer's scopes (patent probably expired) have the same thing.<br /><br />But, that source itself must be calibrated to ensure it meets it's own accuracy specs. Depending on how accurate you want it to be determines the calibration (to NIST standards) interval.<br /><br />In any case, AFAIK, it is a low frequency square wave and DC level. Not sure that type of recalibration would do much for the type of signals I expect they are looking for.<br /><br />If I knew the model number, I could tell you what the manufacturer's recommended interval is to maintain the stated accuracy, and the specs of the scope.<br /><br />If anyone has that info, I'd love to know. Like I said, been i this field for many decades, so I'm very curious.<br /><br />MW<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Another WOW.<br /><br />They are using camcorder images of the display on the scope!!!<br /><br />Not even using the digital data capability! <img src="/images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Testing]

They are speaking now of having video of the scopemeter as it is not connected to comm<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Testing]

Probably do not have a long enough cable. Did you catch the descussion of pos neg red black and how to use? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I am stunned at how little these folks know about one of the most basic troubleshooting tools in the universe.<br /><br />The only things more basic are a towel and duct tape <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br />I mean completely stunned!!!!!<br /><br />Metrology Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Finally, they got somebody on the horn who knew WTF he was talking about.<br /><br />I wish I caught his name.<br /><br />Might be somebody I worked with at some time <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />EDIT:<br /><br />I'm tellin' you folks, this is surreal. Actually unbelievable, and I almost never use that word, since I have learned that even really dumb things happen so often they have to be believed.<br /><br />EDIT 2: <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />If anyone from NASA is listening, if you will fly me to the training site and put me up for a night, I will create a 1 day course on how to use a scopemeter!! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bobw]

I was getting some coffee thinking about how I wish I was up there to push the trigger level button and they started talking about the trigger level. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I'm telling you, this is just excruciating to listen to.<br /><br />What you or I or Testing or emmirill or vogon, or dozens of us could do in a minute is taking them an hour.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Testing]

Wayne, batts are low on meter, they have a procedure with pictures to hook up line power............. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Next amazing fact. The batteries in the scopemeter are running out of juice, so they are finally going to hook up the brick (also known as wall wart <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) to supply DC power to the scopemeter.<br /><br />[dumbfounded] <br /><br />Of course it's a 3 page procedure, as apparently it should be <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Testing]

We are now qualified certified dinosauruses. We have a very low tolerance for BS. I have a 10,000 sqft test lab in my head and have fixed thier screwups over the phone more times than I can count. It is the system, they are not permitted to do anything without a procedure <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ckikilwai]

I don't understand a word of what you guys are saying,<br />but MW and Testing, this seems your type of mission <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Never had electronics on my school, we study latin and other stuff, so what is a scope meter anyway? <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" />

 

[MeteorWayne]

Like I say, from what the appear to know about a scopemeter, that's probably a darn good idea!!!!<br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

It is a combined Oscilliscope and Digital Voltmeter.<br /><br />Edit: An oscilloscope shows time vs voltage for an electrical signal.<br />Looking for signals (in this case) outside of a nice AC sinewave or a variation from a constant DC level.<br />A Voltmeter shows the precise (if the instrument is calibrated) DC and AC voltage of the signal.<br />Computer chips can be picky, In this case it appears that it is a system based on 5 volts DC. +/- a certain amount depending on specs, and also a certain noise (variation from constant) level vs time. Very short high spikes can pass through the power supply and cause the processor, memory, or any other chip in the box to freak out and stop working. (To put it in layman's terms <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> )<br /><br />Like I say, the most basic electrical/electronic tool in the universe (at least within our 13 billion year view <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bobw]

Here is a picture of one sort-of like they have.<br /><br />http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/ths700/index.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

This is just cosmic humor....<br /><br />This just came through from am e-mail friend. Somehow I find it strangely relevant <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Telephone Problems <br />A "KENTUCKY" farm wife called the local phone company to report that her telephone failed to ring when her friends called and that, on the few occasions when it did ring, her dog always moaned right before the Phone rang. <br /><br />The telephone repairman proceeded to the scene, curious to see this psychic dog or senile lady. He climbed a telephone pole, hooked in his test set, and dialed the subscriber's house. The phone didn't ring right away, but then the dog moaned and the telephone began to ring.<br /><br />Climbing down from the pole, the telephone repairman found the following:<br /><br /> 1. The dog was tied to the telephone system's ground wire with a steel chain and collar.<br /><br /> 2. The wire connection to the ground rod was loose.<br /><br /> 3. The dog was receiving 90 volts of signaling current when the number was called.<br /><br /> 4. After a couple of jolts, the dog would start moaning and then urinate.<br /><br /> 5. The wet ground completed the circuit, thus causing the phone to ring. <br /><br /> <br /><br />Which demonstrates that some problems "CAN be fixed by pissing and moaning."<br /><br />Just thought you'd like to know. <br /><br />ROFL <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br /> <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I will find out on Monday (if not before) what the recommended calibration interval is.<br /><br />Also, might be able to find out which model is on the STS. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bobw]

My copy of the ISS Familiarization Manual says it is a Fluke. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

From Tek:<br /><br />What is Metrology?<br />Metrology ensures that your calibrated instruments deliver accurate results with provable validity. The mission of metrology is to maintain measurement standards, to develop effective new methods, and to ensure that measurements are accepted uniformly around the world.<br /><br />Why calibrate? Your instruments need to be calibrated against known standards so their results can be trusted to have a universally accepted meaning. Metrology is the science that supports this trust—in both the "meaning" and the measurements: <br /><br />Metrology defines calibration and ensures predictable performance from your measurement tools. <br />Metrology is the discipline that defines standards and codifies accreditation and traceability. <br />Metrology expertise is at the heart of Tektronix' reputation for accuracy, precision, and performance. <br /><br />Metrology Home<br />Metrology and Your Calibration Choices<br />Calibration Standards<br />Accreditation<br />Traceability<br />Calibration Certificates<br />References and Resources<br />Fundamentals of SI Units<br />Metrology/Calibration White Paper<br />The Real Cost of Calibration White Paper<br />Without metrology and its standards, acceptance of products and measurements between nations and customers would be significantly more difficult. At (unnamed company, thanx Tek) , metrology professionals guide calibration policies and procedures at accredited calibration facilities around the world.<br /><br />Educational stuff.<br /><br />How it's done in the real world.....<br /><br />Traceable Calibration brings the instrument within factory specifications and is sufficient for many applications. The calibration includes customer notification in the event of a measurement issue, as well as: <br /><br />Verification of specifications <br />Traceability to National Metrology Institutes <br />Certificate of Calibration <br />Statement of received conditions (in or out of tolerance) <br />Adjustments to restore perfor <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Waiting for image approval.<br /><br />Any idea of model #? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>