Superconducting magnetic TPS

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docm

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This seems to along with the work being done in the US and Europe on a magnetoplasma shield for spacecraft that would protect against the solar wind, solar flares and other particle radiations.

Shields up, Scotty :)

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http://www.physorg.com/news178442290.html

Superconductor magnet spacecraft heat shield being developed

(PhysOrg.com) -- European space agencies and an aerospace giant are developing a new re-entry heat shield that will use superconductor magnets to generate a magnetic field strong enough to deflect the superhot plasma formed during re-entry of returning spacecraft. They plan to test the new technology by attaching a test module to a missile and using a Russian submarine to fire it into space.


As spacecraft re-enter the Earth's atmosphere at high speeds super-hot temperatures are produced through friction. Traditional heat shields use temperature-resistant ablative coatings that burn off on re-entry, or tough insulating materials, such as the tiles used on the space shuttle. If the new magnetic shielding is successful it could be more reliable and make the craft lighter and easier to re-use, since it would reduce or eliminate the need for other shielding materials.

The project is being run cooperatively by the European Space Agency, EADS Astrium, and the German aerospace center, DLR (Deutschen Zentrums for Luft- und Raumfahrt). The idea is to use a superconducting coil at front of the craft to generate a strong magnetic field projecting beyond the front of the craft.

The scientists are currently assessing the superconducting coil's performance, and have not yet finalized the technical details of exactly how they will fit it into a Russian "Volan" escape capsule for the test. Also uncertain at this stage are the modifications that will be needed to the trajectory to compensate for the deflected air. Telemetry data recovery will also present challenges because the ionized gases that will form around the craft will block radio signals.

The Volan and its magnetic heat shield would be launched into a suborbital trajectory from a Russian submarine at sea. The missile, a modified ballistic missile called Volna, would re-enter the Earth's atmospher at Mach 21 and come back to Earth in the Kamchatka peninsula, a remote region of the Russian Far East.
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bdewoody

Guest
Finally a new way to re-enter. This will be cool if it opens up new possibilities for re-entry vehicles.
 
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docm

Guest
Given the short duration where they'd have to operate I'd guess an ultracapacitor would suffice. Charge it up with solar during the flight and discharge it at massive amps for the few minutes of re-entry.
 
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EarthlingX

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What i find so interesting about this is, that it could probably evolve into some kind of a magnetic radiation shielding and it also looks very compatible with VASIMR tech.
Nuclear power would probably be sufficient, i'm just not sure, how would that work through the landing approach stresses, so i guess capacitors would be safer, while we wait for fusion reactors ;)
 
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docm

Guest
VASIMR is meant for use in space only, not in landers or crew return vehicles.
 
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EarthlingX

Guest
docm":5nkxkmvq said:
VASIMR is meant for use in space only, not in landers or crew return vehicles.
Indeed. If lander is only for landing, then it probably won't be there, but if it is something else, it might be.
 
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mainmind

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I wonder what attitude the vehicle will take on reentry. If the coils are really installed as depicted, it would put a pole of the magnetic field along the major axis of the vehicle, and consequently, right at the center of the nose. The pole would be the weakest point of the field, so I doubt they'd come in dead-on.

My question about this is if the plasma is only created by friction between the body and the atmosphere, and the non-ionized particles do not react with the magnetic field, wouldn't the field trap the plasma instead of repelling it? The plasma can't begin to be created until there's a certain amount of friction, right? So would they need to wait until there's a critical amount of plasma and turn on the magnetic field to push the plasma away? Would that sheath of plasma be self-sustaining?

This tech is like the inverse of mini-magnetosphere plasma propulsion: http://www.ess.washington.edu/Space/M2P2/
 
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gwobserver

Guest
In this case if the magnet was superconducting then they would energize the magnet in space. The tough thing would be keeping the temperature of the superconductor above the critical point. Even though I know the vasimr is intended for space use it seems like it would be possible to transmit rf energy into the plasma and actually use a similar propulsion method to slow the return vehicle. I don't know how many g's you get in descent but with some tricky engineering you could probably create a wider descent window and possibly some extra control.
 
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kelvinzero

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docm":1v2dm42a said:
Given the short duration where they'd have to operate I'd guess an ultracapacitor would suffice. Charge it up with solar during the flight and discharge it at massive amps for the few minutes of re-entry.

Maybe you could use magnetohydrodynamics to power it directly from the difference in velocities of the craft and the atmosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHD_generator

After all you really do have a lot of energy on hand. In fact the whole point is to find a way to get rid of that energy.
 
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EarthlingX

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Rather long article on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-entry
Some previous forum discussions:
A question about de-orbiting
Landing on other planets/moons

So far in the discussion we have identified this problems:
- power - different possible solutions, capacitors - batteries, generators;
- plasma source - i guess, combining heating and RF source ?;
- shape of the magnetic field - could decreasing size of the rings towards the tip help ? Also, it looks as if tip is not meant to be covered by a plasma shield, just flanks;
- heating of the superconducting magnets which generate magnetic field - no idea ?

I would suggest using Soyuz reentry parameters in a non-ballistic mode for a general orientation.
NASA - Soyuz Landing

btw. check this about Soyuz, it's really cool :cool:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz.html
 
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docm

Guest
Remember M2P2, the plasma solar sail NASA was looking at earlier this decade? It's also a synthetic magnetosphere.

http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/headlines/ ... 4oct_1.htm

m2p2_big.jpg


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"We've just finished our first round of tests in a 20 by 30 foot vacuum chamber here at the Marshall Space Flight Center," says Gallagher, the experiment's principal investigator at Marshall. "We're conducting the tests as a cooperative effort between NASA and the University of Washington, with support from the University of Alabama."

"The magnetic field for our magnetosphere comes from a 1-ft diameter coil of 16 gauge enameled wire. We run 5 to 30 amp currents through the coil; that creates a 300 gauss field at the mouth of the solenoid" -- about 3 times stronger than a typical refrigerator magnet.

Normally, the intensity of such a magnetic field diminishes rapidly with increasing distance from the coil. "It's similar to a dipole field that falls off as the cube of the distance," explains Gallagher. "Dipolar magnetic bubbles are a problem, though, because they don't present the cross section we need to intercept plenty of solar wind power."

see captionTo make the bubble bigger, Gallagher and his colleagues blew up the magnetic field -- much like inflating a balloon -- by injecting ionized gas near the coil. The innovative use of ionized gas (called plasma) to blow up the magnetic bubble is what gives the project its name: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion or M2P2 for short.

"The thing that makes M2P2 special is that we inflate the field from the inside with low-energy plasma," says Gallagher. "Earth's magnetosphere is inflated with plasma, too, but it's not as dense as the plasma inside the M2P2 bubble. Jupiter's magnetosphere comes closer -- the sources of plasma there are active volcanoes on Io."

The Marshall scientists use a more down-to-Earth plasma source for their M2P2 experiments -- a helicon plasma generator, which ionizes gaseous argon and helium with high-power radio waves. "Helicons are fairly common," noted Gallagher. They are routinely used for fundamental plasma research and to etch commercial semiconductors.

"Last week's test was a success. We were able to completely fill the vacuum chamber with a magnetic bubble. The only thing that stopped the expansion was the presence of the chamber walls. In space this same experiment might create a mini-magnetosphere 15 km across."

Maintaining such a bubble in space would require about 1 kW of power and less than 1 kg per day of helium propellant for the plasma source. In return, the bubble would intercept about 600 kW of solar wind power.

"One of the advantages of M2P2 is that it requires no new technology," says Gallagher. "The plasma sources and solenoids at the heart of the bubble are off-the-shelf devices."

"M2P2 is a 'constant-force' device," he added. "And that's another big advantage. If you sail the spacecraft far from the Sun, you won't lose thrust."
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annodomini2

Guest
kelvinzero":1fiponv1 said:
docm":1fiponv1 said:
Given the short duration where they'd have to operate I'd guess an ultracapacitor would suffice. Charge it up with solar during the flight and discharge it at massive amps for the few minutes of re-entry.

Maybe you could use magnetohydrodynamics to power it directly from the difference in velocities of the craft and the atmosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHD_generator

After all you really do have a lot of energy on hand. In fact the whole point is to find a way to get rid of that energy.

Was thinking exactly the same thing, using the shape of the magnetic field direct plasma flow through another set of coils to power the field itself, be nice if it could be made passive, possibly using the shape of the vehicle to direct flow to start the magnetics.

Additionally for high deltaV missions if there is enough power generated redirect some of the flow to generate a reverse thrust?
 
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Sumontro

Guest
Could this type of a shield double as a radiation shield? Also, does anyone know why this hasn't been tried before? This seems like a much more elegant solution to returning from orbit than bulky thermal protection tiles or ablative shield. If proven this would be an excellent device to apply to a small crew transfer vehicle to facilitate large scale transport.

How come a VASMIR type jet can't give thrust comparable to jet engines?
 
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docm

Guest
M2P2 type devices could indeed shield against charged particles but not against neutrons or electromagnetic radiation like x-rays or gamma.

VASIMR and jets are two different animals. Jets & chemical rockets produce high thrust for a short time - minutes (rockets) to hours (jets) while VASIMR delivers a low thrust for months on end, constantly accelerating the whole time 'til you turn it around at the half-way point to brake. VASIMR's technique is far more efficient, uses a tiny percentage of the fuel mass and can in the end result in much higher speeds due to the extremely high velocity of the exhaust plasma. The "pay back" is that it's a space drive only, not for atmospheric or launch use. You still need rockets for that, or maybe in the future a combined cycle jet/rocket like SABRE.
 
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Sumontro

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Why can't a VASMIR type engine accelerate higher amounts of mass? Is it an energy problem? I thought particles exiting that type of engine are going near the speed of light, wouldn't accelerating more particles give is a lot higher thrust?
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
Such an engine can accelerate any amount of mass. The crucial point is that any kind of ion engine has a very small amount of thrust. SO if you are trying to accelerate a large mass, it takes a loooooooooooong time.
 
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docm

Guest
MeteorWayne":xg37083i said:
Such an engine can accelerate any amount of mass. The crucial point is that any kind of ion engine has a very small amount of thrust. SO if you are trying to accelerate a large mass, it takes a loooooooooooong time.
With VASIMR running 24/7 for weeks on end it could theoretrically accelerate a rather large spacecraft to Mars in a fraction of the time a chemical insertion would take burning for just a few minutes. Much faster than a conventional ion drive too, and without the electrode erosion problem.

What did Chang-Diaz say VASIMR would take powered by a nuclear power plant, 39 days? Not too shabby given the consumables and radiation exposure problems; less need for foodstuffs & water, shorter radiation exposure and enough power for an artificial magnetosphere if you want a Buick instead of a Chevy. IF that ISS test goes well someone needs to get working on a reactor for manned planetary missions pronto.
 
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nimbus

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Someone at NSF says 4 weeks with twice the 39 day flight scheme's power. 400MW IIRC
 
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Sumontro

Guest
What about using a plasma drive to power an aircraft into orbit? I still don't see why, if enough power is put into a plasma drive, it can't give rocket engine level thrust.
 
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nimbus

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The size of such a drive would be disproportionate. Even with the most optimistic tech we (well, I) know of - prototypical or theoretical.
 
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nimbus

Guest
I think it starts to be possible only with new tech like Bussard Polywell variants, at GW levels. I don't know if such a fusion powered VASIMR could do it. You can find a few polywell propulsion schemes roughly detailed here:
http://www.askmar.com/Fusion.html
 
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