Tachyons

[gfpaladin]

In a recent thread many have been posting about how nothing can travel AT the speed of light (except photons) or exceed it (FTL travel). The latter made me post in that thread that I recalled that the speed of light may actually serve as both an upper limit AND a lower limit.<br /><br />This was an oblique reference to Tachyons. As I have been out of particle physics for a bit (had to focus on my area of study), I was curious if a scientific consensus had been reached yet on Tachyons.

 

[jatslo]

We talked about tachyonic behavior at the following:<br /><br />Tachyons : A tachyon (from the Greek &#964;&#945;&#967;&#8059;&#962; {takhús}, meaning "swift") is a hypothetical particle that travels at superluminal velocity. The first theoretical description of tachyons is attributed to physicist Arnold Sommerfeld; however, the concept has recurred in a variety of other contexts, such as string theory. Many strange properties have been attributed to tachyons, which also play a role in some popular science fiction. In the language of special relativity, a tachyon is a particle with space-like four-momentum and imaginary proper time. A tachyon is constrained to the space-like portion of the energy-momentum graph. Therefore, it can never slow to light speed or below.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon<br /><br />I think tachyons travel at exactly "C", where "C" is infinite speed, like in "Infinite Energy Equals Infinite Mass times Infinite Speed Squared", whereas "Infinite Speed Squared Equals Infinite Speed".

 

[gfpaladin]

I already knew all of that...( with the exception of "I think tachyons travel at exactly "C", where "C" is infinite speed, like in "Infinite Energy Equals Infinite Mass times Infinite Speed Squared", whereas "Infinite Speed Squared Equals Infinite Speed"), which I don't know HOW you are coming up with. I was asking if any scientific concensus had been reached on the subject.

 

[jatslo]

Nope, Most people that I talked with say that there is no such thing as tachyons. Some people provided some pretty good links on the subject, but nobody, with exception to myself, explored the possibilities.<br /><br />What do you Think?

 

[jurgens]

don't listen to jatslo he has no clue what he's talking about...

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">don't listen to jatslo he has no clue what he's talking about...</font><br /><br />Ad hominem or ATTACKING THE PERSON

 

[jurgens]

Jatslo, im still studying quantum mechanics but I really don't know anything at all about Tachyons other then what I have seen on "The Elegant Universe". So I admit that I don't know anything about them and that Im unqualified to answer his question. But seriously jatslo, ive read many many many threads from you and you have clearly shown that you don't understand the physics at the level that gfpaladin is asking.<br /><br />AD Hominem or not, its the truth for now(im not saying you will never understand any of it, but right now you certainly do not) <br /><br />anyways sorry gfpaladin for throwing the thread offtopic, just warning you there to take anything jatslo says with a great big giant salt crystal.

 

[jatslo]

Try asking gfpaladin a Tachyon question. I bet gfpaladin is well versed with the existing theories. I for one am very interested in Tachyon related topics. The only cohesion/consensus that I am aware of is the one that exists in the encyclopedia, and I am not aware of any pending updates. Saiph, and Yevand are usually willing to explore unobserved phenomena, but they rarely commit to non-facts without evidence. Most people on this board will not stick their necks out on tachyons.

 

[najab]

><i>Most people on this board will not stick their necks out on tachyons.</i><p>Because, by definition, they do not exist in nor can they interact with, the universe we are capable of observing.</p>

 

[Saiph]

noooo!! It's back!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />Just so you know, we've thrashed this out with Jatslo in that huge tachyon thread (about 3 weeks old now?).<br /><br />The consensus is that they can theoretically exist, they have not been detected, and if they do exist, they may not be able to be detected (because they may not be able to interact with us). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[najab]

The truth may hurt, but let's stop kidding around. You have not demonstrated, in <b>any</b> of your posts, the level of understanding of physics which I would expect from a high-school student. You do not appear to understand what you are posting, if I had to guess I'd say that you just do a Google search on every polysyllabic phrase you see used on the board, and cut-n-paste from the first site you find. I'm hard pressed to find a single one of your posts which added anything to the store of knowledge these fora represent - besides, of course, things you have pasted from the Web.<p>I don't often say this, actually I have never said it to anyone before, but you would be doing the board a <b>huge</b> service if you simply stopped posting and went and did some basic research. I suggest any introductory college level text would be a good place to start. Then, assuming you understand what you read, we would be spared things like "<i>I think tachyons travel at exactly "C", where "C" is infinite speed, like in "Infinite Energy Equals Infinite Mass times Infinite Speed Squared", whereas "Infinite Speed Squared Equals Infinite Speed"."</i> - that's so bad it's not even wrong.<p>I'm sure you're a great person, but you don't know jack when it comes to physics.</p></p>

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">The consensus is that they can theoretically exist, they have not been detected, and if they do exist, they may not be able to be detected (because they may not be able to interact with us).</font><br /><br />Agreed!

 

[gfpaladin]

<i> Just so you know, we've thrashed this out with Jatslo in that huge tachyon thread (about 3 weeks old now?). <br /></i><br />Sorry, I did not know...I don't think i have even been registered here that long...<br /><br /><i>The consensus is that they can theoretically exist, they have not been detected, and if they do exist, they may not be able to be detected (because they may not be able to interact with us). </i><br /><br />So nothing HAS changed on the topic...though an INSPEC search seems to indicate string theorists are interested in the topic.<br /><br />Thanks!

 

[Saiph]

didn't expect you to know, just thougth I'd let you know where to look (the thread has lots of discussion about what infinity is, and jatslo's "IT"). It's...an odd read.<br /><br />No problem, more than happy to help. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">So nothing HAS changed on the topic...though an INSPEC search seems to indicate string theorists are interested in the topic.</font><br /><br />I saw that too, but it is philosophy. I wonder, if tachyons can be proved or disproved in a quantum computer. If tachyons were representative of anti-electromagnetic waves/particles, any computer transmitting photons would also transmit Tachyons.

 

[nacnud]

<img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[jurgens]

jatslo... what the heck is "anti-electromagnetic waves/particles"<br /><br />Im serious jatslo, stop pulling stuff out of your ass, its making my head hurt...

 

[mrmorris]

I got your back on this one, Jatslo...<br /><br />You <b>guys</b>! You're just a bunch of textbook-hugging, no-imagination, institution-parroting weinies. Why can't you simply open your minds to the broader possibilities? Fly! Be free! Let your imagination soar! It's a great feeling having the wind whistle through... er past your ears.

 

[nacnud]

pft!

 

[mrmorris]

Oh yeah -- real good. Little four-letter reply. You didn't even bother with a spell-checker. Everyone knows the word is 'pffft!".

 

[jatslo]

Role call is complete, except yevand.

 

[jurgens]

Im curious about Tachyon's though... How are they created? Also can they be created within a very high energy particle accelerator?

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"How are they created?"</font><br /><br />The question is, do they exist? They are simply a theoretical model.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"Also can they be created within a very high energy particle accelerator? "</font><br /><br />Maybe they are. We have no way of detecting them, so no way to know.

 

[nacnud]

"Yesterday upon the stair I met a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. I wish that man would go away."<br />Hughes Mearns (1875-1965)

 

[jurgens]

Well if they were created in a particle, I would assume you would be able to detect them if they were created, simply from Conservation of energy and Momentum.<br /><br />But if they did exist, they present a very interesting paradox if special relativity is to be believed(which for all intents and purposes it is). Maybe the creation of a tachyon places one in a non-inertial refrence frame where general relativity does not work, or tachyons are an artifact of us being in a non-inertial refrence frame kind of like the Centrifugal force. All wild speculation from me though...