Terraforming Mars

[talkativejd]

I believe that if we triggered a volanic eruption on the red planet, useing a space-based/solar-powered laser, it would create the necessary warm climate for horticulture to grow in order to establish an oxygen base for Human's to breathe in. Having said that, I also believe that this should be a public and private effort. <br />The reason why I'm bringing this to everyone's attn is this. Mar's has a HUGE abundance of mineral wealth. In layman's term's that means; IF Mar's were terraformed then private industry would begin hiring MILLION'S of people to work for them. What do you think?

 

[jurgens]

Why not just throw Mar's Moons into mars. That would warm up the planet quite a bit. Might even trigger some volcanic activity to start on Mars.

 

[nexium]

My guess is the delta V required to throw the moons of Mars at Mars exceeds the delta V required to throw a similar mass of asteroiods and comets at Mars.<br /> Volcanic activity on Earth warms Earth's surface less than 1 degree f , so we would need to create a lot of Volcanic activity to warm Mars significantly or to raise the atmospheric pressure from 6 to 7 millibars. Neil

 

[lewcos]

Is it just me or does bringing asteroids from outside orbits to close orbits sound like a bad idea?<br /><br />I think a much more effective, safe, and fiscally responsible way would be to send Michael Moore there and let him babble - all that hot air oughta help some <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <br /><br />{typo}

 

[talkativejd]

I guess that I forgot to say that this would only be done when Mars is at the closest distance to the sun. That way we could take advantage of the Martian summer.

 

[alokmohan]

Well the idea is certainly good.But it sounds too mathematical.Too abstract thinng for the present.

 

[nexium]

Hi Steve: Unless you consider the ISS a cost effective space habitat; the technology to build space habitats is largely untested. The bullet train is likely not fast enough to launch mass from the Moon's surface. We have not set a date to put humans in asteroids or comets. The magnetic mass launchers are no faster than an automoblile, so far.<br /> A kilometer size glass habitat would require meters thick walls to permit even one tenth bar of air pressure. Such thickness may not allow enough light to pass though for photo synthesis. Stearable mirrors, and antennas that rotate continously at one revelution per minute have not been space tested. The meters thick glass may not tolerate the temperature change that occurs once per minute, or there abouts. Biosphere 2 demonstated that a closed system does not produce enough oxygen. Massive heat exchangers may be necessary to dispose of waste heat which will otherwise roast the habitat dwellers. A cubic kilometer for one thousand habitat dwellers has to be costly. A rotating cylinder has poor volume utilization. A rotating sphere is worse volume utilization. A wheel habitat has not been demonstrated even on Earth's surface. Neil

 

[yevaud]

The original plan for Mars was multi-level. This was actually from a series of discussions at some conference (I don't remember the particulars) back in the 80's and early 90's.<br /><br />1. Trigger all active volcanic faults on Mars, if possible (using Thermonuclear weapons, natch). This may not create a huge atmosphere, but will add to the overall gas pressure.<br /><br />2. Begin to bombard the poles with icy asteroids collected from the Belt and outwards.<br /><br />3. Construct gigantic (but very thin) Mylar mirrors at the poles, and reflect concentrated sunlight at them, to melt them.<br /><br />4. Seed the planet with anerobic bacteria to convert the CO2 into a breathable atmosphere. Also begin to plant organisms such as those from Antartica, which might be able to handle the extremes. Use these to stabilize large areas, and lock in H20. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

No, no, no, you all are missing the obvious best solution. Once a frozen sea has been identified, drill holes in it and proceed with the most intensive underground thermonuclear testing program ever!<br /><br />Political fallout? Maybe not, especially if we give a free ride to the nukes of poor, struggling nations wanting to test them but fearing our wrath if they do it on Earth. Or, it could be part of a disarmament program. Just think, destroy dozens, hundreds of nukes with no waste problem -- on Earth, anyway. And what about the radiation on Mars? I don't know, how would the resultant extra radiation compare to the already intense radiation hitting Mars? But there is the problem of radioactive dust storms. Mmmmmm, maybe it's not a good idea after all. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Yeah, a 1,200 mile-wide, radioactive dust storm, moving at 700 kph would attract my attention. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[talkativejd]

Steve, if you had LOOKED at my post FIRST instead of replying to everybodies reply to my post you would have not have twisted what I said. Mar's ALREADY has GREENHOUSE GASES. All that need's to happen is trigger a VOLCANIC eruption so that the HEAT from the eruption is TRAPPED inside the Martian atmosphere. This would then begin to melt the permafrost on the surface. We then have a WARM enough climate to plant HORITCULTURE en-masse. This would establish an oxygen base for human's to breathe. THIS IS AS PLAIN AS I CAN EXPLAIN IT & I DON'T CARE WHAT ROBERT ZUBRIN THINK'S EITHER!

 

[rubicondsrv]

Please calm down. <br />and avoid posting words with all caps it is rude. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[talkativejd]

STOP twisting everything that I say. The HEAT that is release from the volcanic eruption would be trapped inside the Martian atmosphere,which is made up of Carbon Dioxide. The CO2 does not heat the atmosphere nor the sunshine, it's the heat from the volcano & for that matter there's no sense in transporting stuff over there when it already exist's on that planet, use your head. I don't know why you even brought up the subject of methane, that ain't got nothing to do with what I'm talking about. As far as you "believing" that there is no water/permafrost on the planet then explain all those dry river bed's, any geologist will tell you they didn't form by their self & the definition of permafrost actually means that the ground is froze over because of the below freezing temperture just like it does on planet earth. As far as the " hydrated minerals" you refer to, the surface of mar's is made up of mostly IRON OXIDE(hint: employment). Now,as far as your refering to "artificial warmth & light" there is NOTHING artificial about volcanic eruption's which release's SEVERAL times more heat than any nuclear device & is completely natural. Beside that the martian volcano " Olympus Mons" is the LARGEST volcano in our solar system not just Mars(that mean's earth included). The "agriculture" on the planet,that you refer to, start's off as SEED'S that grow's in the natural climate NOT some enclosed environment, that defeat's the whole purpose of planting horticulture(an oxygen base). Now Here's what I want you to answer. If I'm wrong about all this, then why does this basic idea work on planet EARTH where every human being has lived since the beginning of mankind? If it had NOT worked on planet EARTH then WE would not even be here. That just goes to show, by your answer's, that you either don't use any common sense when processing information or you are willing to SABOTAGE anything that has to do with space. Now which is it?

 

[spaceinvador_old]

No matter how we try to tranform Mars, it will not happen. First off, would we be able to match the earths gravity for us to dwell?

 

[spaceinvador_old]

I don't think plants wou'ld be able to strive or even survive the forces that are diffrent on Mars. <br /><br />Unless we use a Super comptuter to show us how we should change the DNA of plants to adapt to thier new home, Mars.<br /><br />Not even a Super computer could tell us the right DNA code, cause it can't know certain factors itself about the unknown.

 

[nexium]

Steve has a wide mood swing from pesimistic to very optimistic depending on the topic. We can perhaps have more humans living off planet in a few hundred years than the present population of Earth. How we do that, depends on which technologies have major break thoughs. With present technology, only small scale at extreme cost is possible off planet, unless there are extensive secret technologies.<br /> Is anyone making nutritious food from urine and feces at present without using sun lamps or solar energy? What other waste will there be in a free floating spherical habitat that could be made into food? How else can we make food from carbon dioxide besides photo synthesis? Do mushrooms extract carbon from carbon dioxide?<br />Billions of humans can live as much as several kilometers below Earth's surface at less cost than elsewhere in the solar system at 20 kilograms per square centimeter of shielding. Why are we not building model cities underground?<br />I don't think the volcanos of Earth warm the surface even 1/100 degree f on the average. Why would we think that greater volcanism than Earth could be triggered on Mars? Neil

 

[spaceinvador_old]

I don't mean to be negative about transforming Mars, but it can't work to our advantages.<br /><br />Life on our planet functions off a 24hr day, 12/12. Does Mars have the same light and dark peroids. Does Mars have the abilty to have four seasons like earth?<br /><br />

 

[spaceinvador_old]

You're correct, I feel. Life can adapt to changes as well. But the efforts needed to ''try'' to change Mars to Earth like is non feesable in my opinion.<br /><br />We already have a home (Earth) and we need science and all it offers to help clean the planet and help insure our well being here first.<br /><br />I'm not against the idea of "Mars for home". But I see so much destruction here and we could do better by applying all efforts to clean-up industrial destruction and make true production...

 

[contracommando]

<br /><i>“I believe that if we triggered a volcanic eruption on the red planet, using a space-based/solar-powered laser, it would create the necessary warm climate for horticulture to grow in order to establish an oxygen base for Human's to breathe in. Having said that, I also believe that this should be a public and private effort.”</i><br /><br /><br />Using a space-based laser might prove too expensive. Using a tactical nuke in certain key locations (ice caps?) might prove to be easier. Also, more than one volcanic eruption would be necessary. What we could do is genetically engineer bacteria to live off Martian rocks and release whatever trapped carbon-dioxide they could find into the air. We could also engineer certain bacteria (or plants) to release unnaturally high levels of oxygen into the air. That, coupled with other efforts, might terraform Mars in 100-200 years. <br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[gsuschrist]

"Using a tactical nuke in certain key locations (ice caps?) might prove to be easier."<br /><br />How would this work? You'd need hundreds of thousands of tactical nuclear weapons to make a dent.

 

[nexium]

My guess is we need to do most of the things suggested large scale for 200 years to warm Mars by 50 degrees c = 90 degrees f That will be marginal for human habitation and Mars may cool several degrees per decade after we stop doing some of them.<br />Tactical nukes are too puny. How about one thousand big nukes/100 megatons each/ total 100,000 megatons? With very good luck the volcanoes will release as many volitiles into the atmosphere as the nukes and asteroid hits do. It will take more than 200 years for micro-organisms and plants to become significant sources of oxygen and green house gases, even if you bring a million tons of seed and fertilizer per week from Earth. After the humans move to Mars in the 200 th year, the fertilizer can be (perhaps) produced on Mars. Oxygen masks will necessary for additional centuries, and the solar mirrors will be needed to prevent freezing the plants on winter nights near the poles. Winter nights at the poles of Mars each last almost an Earth year, because Mars (like Earth) is tilted about 23 degrees on it's axis. Neil