That giant sucking sound you hear is the shuttle sucking

[frodo1008]

The only thing that is going to stop the shuttle from completing the manifest presently put forth by NASA is another shuttle accident. Somehow I don't even think that you would be happy and triumphant about that!<br /><br />Quite frankly even those of us who support both the shuttle and the ISS are not certain about anything either, but even if it took an extra year (and thus delayed the CEV and going back to the moon by another year it will quite probably have to be done. Why leave the ISS 90 % completed when it could be totally completed by an extra 3 or 4 flights?<br /><br />There are literally dozens of known areas of space science that mankind will be able to study on the ISS. There are medical possibilities also (all the more reason to see to it that the biomedical studies are fully funded). The major item in my thinking is to use the ISS as a laboratory to find how to work metals and other materials in the environment of space!<br /><br />Just as one example is the electron beam welding of metals. Such welding on the surface of the Earth requires a great deal of energy just to generate the vacuum needed for the beam to be able to focus. In space such a vacuum is a given! <br /><br />The future of space exploitation for the benefit of mankind is going to depend on our abilities in these areas. Future workers in space are going to have to be manufacturing types: manufacturing engineers, welders, machinists, inspectors, assemblers, mechanics and others who can turn raw materials into the infrastructure needed for humanity to actually move off of this planet and into the solar system in a big way!<br /><br />The ISS like the shuttle does have its flaws, but it is going to pay off many times its cost before such research is even close to completion. Why do you think the Russians, Europeans, and Japanese are as interested in this project as they are. Because they see it as the highway to profitability in space. Do try to believe me here, as this was MY area of expe

 

[mattblack]

Good post, Frodo! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>

 

[llivinglarge]

Hey, I may not like the Shuttle... But it certainly doesn't suck!

 

[spacefire]

<font color="yellow">The ISS like the shuttle does have its flaws, but it is going to pay off many times its cost before such research is even close to completion. Why do you think the Russians, Europeans, and Japanese are as interested in this project as they are. Because they see it as the highway to profitability in space. Do try to believe me here, as this was MY area of expertise! </font><br />Completing the ISS is definitely a good intent. If only it didn't require the use of the Shuttle!<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Mark Wade is an excellent resource but some of his opeds - like this one - are sadly lacking in objectivity and even rational analysis. <br /><br />Whilst he is correct in pointing out that he orbital module configuration is the most efficient for earth orbit operations, but the CEV was specifically sized to rentry of 6 people plus cargo from a Mars mission. This imposed a minimum size on the descent module, which happened to to be a similar size to what was required for the overal mission. Wade ignores this , even though it is in the ESAS document. To be frank, it is poor scholarship to ignore a major primary source of information. <br /><br />But the article at least gives a useful summary of the range of designs that were considered before settling on the final one.<br /><br />In my experience, those who "wait for the worse and get surprised perhaps than living in fairyland" are those end up never being pleasantly suprised and are perpectually cynical. Don't end up like that.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

Actually I don't completely disagree with you here. But that isn't really very important. Completion of the ISS DOES require the use of the shuttle. However, only for the next four to five years, and then the shuttle will be retired (during the total time).<br /><br />By the way your tag line is not always totally true either. Sometimes the actual cost of cancelling a major program (with its legal contracts) can cost almost as much as finishing up the original project. Once again, I actually know this as I have seen this in operation!<br /><br />However, if something is gradually fazed out as in the intended retirement of the shuttle the costs can be spread out over a longer period of time and somewhat amortized in this manner. And in the case of the shuttle, NASA is going to at least try to salvage some of the development already done for the future of the CEV and manned space flight. So do try to be more hopeful here!

 

[kdavis007]

As the crybaby saganites is doing their whinning and moaning as usual..