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The fifth and sixth forces of Universe, as viewed from a different angle

May 23, 2020
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The Ultimate Theory of the Cosmos?
By Rameshwar Singh Jamwal​
Cosmology and High Energy Physics are not my forte but my write up and YouTube presentations on Corona Virus, had concluded that Indian Philosophy offers the best possible way to fight it on long term basis. Darwin’s Theory of Evolution and Einstein’s theories of Relativity and some emerging theories, like String Theory reveal only a part of the genesis of this Universe and Human Race and we need to go to the Indian Philosophy to get a complete answer. I have received a few queries as to how Philosophy can reveal truth about Universe, which requires scientific studies and parameters and what so many eminent scientists, Nobel Laureates and intellectuals par excellence could not find despite painstaking efforts of decades. This is the reason for this write up.

Firstly, let us discuss the limitations of scientific discoveries and these are the admissions of eminent scientists, themselves. Firstly, they admit that they are trying to find out a complete theory of everything, a unified theory of Quantum Theory and Relativity theory, which could throw light on the evolution of Universe, or the possibility of other Universes, and whether there is a possibility of its re-collapse (Called Maha Pralya in our philosophical texts) and again reverting back to a singularity, with immense mass and energy.

Secondly, Newton’s three laws of motion may have led to industrial revolutions and our great strides in the field of physics and other fields of science but ultimately gave way to Einstein’s Theories. But again, as per scientists, E=MC2, has its limitations. In certain situations, it also fails to account for the nature of the Universe at its inception and can never help us to physically reach and examine those parts of even this Universe, which are drifting away from us with speeds more than the speed of light. So, can our theoretical calculations done on our computers and Labs reveal the secrets of all those Universes, galaxies, stars and planets, where we will never reach physically, because as per this theory, we cannot travel more than the speed of light.

Moreover, we are still trying to find out the Fifth Force of nature, apart from the four known forces, Gravitation, Electro-Magnetism, the Weak Nuclear force and the Strong Nuclear force, as we have not been able to find out the composition of about 96% of the Universe, called Dark matter and Dark energy. Then how can we hope to find out the real nature and all aspects of nature.

The assumptions about the nature, Black holes, the relativity theories, the string theory, the initial configuration of Universe after the Big bang and much more and all our scientific efforts may help us to some extent but still we will need to combine the other fields of science, from Biology to Neuro biology, from Genetics to Epigenetics, and from the concepts of evolution of species, the generation of life, the difference between humans and other forms of life. We will have to find the answer whether that cockroach, hiding in the dark corners of my kitchen, or the monkey sitting atop a tree in my backyard are my ancestors? We have to combine the theories of Physics with our knowledge as to how our brain functions, how Genes switch on and off to regulate the formation of enzymes and proteins and their content, type and quality, which ultimately decide actions and behaviors and our capability to decipher the true nature of atoms, the sub atomic particles and many other scientific wonders. This will also require the capability to understand as to what is our memory, where we store millions of files, in video, audio, and still formats, their size and format and how this retained memory decides what sort of actions we are going to perform, logical or illogical, rational or irrational.
We can’t ignore the exceptional contributions of eminent scientists like Charles Darwin, James Watson, Francis Creek, Gregor Mendel, Hunt Morgan and many others. But still their concepts and theories have gaps. We still have not been able to find out that if we have evolved from monkeys and chimpanzees or cockroaches, why so many of them are still on this planet. Why all of them did not become humans. Why humans made so great strides in science and these so called ancestors of ours are still jumping on trees and doing the same actions which they were doing millions of years ago. Similarly, our findings in the fields of Genetics, Epigenetics and Neuro-Biology have not been able to find out the reasons of our actions, about our Mind, about our intelligence and the stuff of our mind and its ultimate fate after death, where it goes after the five basic constituents of human body merge into the constituents of nature, from which they are made.

We are still groping in the dark whether the humans are a different species or fall in the same category of other creatures. If we recognize and appreciate the lifelong efforts of the scientists to find out the truth, which have helped us to reach this stage of modernization, we can’t ignore the contributions of Prophets and sages of all religions, who also spent their entire lives in search of the same ultimate truth, may be, by adopting a different path. Our efforts to develop and experiment with Hadron Collider at CERN and other places, our journeys into space, the efforts to locate and find the source of Black holes and other stars will certainly help us to some extent but we have to realize that we will have to find a harmonious blend of all these concepts and theories of science with logical and well reasoned thoughts and Mystic traditions of India. We may, ultimately have to realize and acknowledge that the concept of “Apara” and “Para” energies, which as per Bhagvad Gita, permeate all living and non living things of all the Universes, and which have been termed as “Brahman” are the “Fifth” and “Sixth” Forms of energy and are worth giving a serious thought by the scientific community. The ‘Apara’ is the “Fifth “energy, being probed by the Physicists and is that energy which comprises five basic constituents of the Universe, called Earth, water, fire, air and Ether and also Mind, Ego and Intelligence (Verse 4, Chapter 7, Bhavad Gita) and which maintains the equilibrium of Universes and is separate from all the four forms of energy discovered by the scientists till date and the ‘Para” is that “Sixth” energy, which no scientist has tried to look for and which permeates all living creatures, in the form of Soul and regulates its movement from one place to another and maintenance of different forms of life, in these Universes. The material substance, called “Mahat Tattav” is the total cosmic manifestation, in which there are three modes of nature, which have been talked earlier and the knowledge of which, will give the true and whole knowledge.
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The author is practicing Advocate of J&K High Court and a Yoga Exponent.
 
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Apr 5, 2020
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Sir Rameshwar Jamwal,

First of all, I would like to state that I also is from India and am only 12 years old. I would like to say some statements and I mean no offense.

I have heard that there's a proverb in English, "Philosophy starts to think where Science collapses." or something like that. Now, both Science and Philosophy are branches of one tree, the tree of Logic. I believe that everything that happened after the Big Bang has a definite logic. In Physics there is a law (I have forgotten the name, sorry) which states that every work has a reason behind it. And the reason comes before the work in the arrow of time if you look at it in the ascending order.

I guess you mean "Maha Pralay", please correct me if I am wrong. The most common theories about the end of the Universe is the Big Crunch and Big Rip. Most people in the modern Scientific Community believe that the universe will end up in a Big Rip, because of the expanding effect of Dark Energy which might expand the universe so much in the future that it will not remain a single piece. And, there are also many people who believe that the Universe will expand on forever. Only a minor part of the Scientific Community believe that the Universe will again go down to the stage it was in the beginning, I guess you are mentioning this theory while talking about "Maha Pralay".

And, in the last line of the third paragraph of your statement, I guess you mean to ask a question. And also, there are not many studies that say that there is a Fifth Force and a Sixth as well. I read in a magazine about a study done by some physicists and chemists in Hungary. They are still studying about that. We need many other studies to include another Fundamental Force in Physics. We need to prove that in front of the whole scientific community. There are not enough evidences to support that there is a Fifth Fundamental Force. Because that single study could be wrong as well. We know that there was a study on the speed of light and neutrinos which was done in the early 2010s and, as far as I remember, at the first time their calculations said that neutrinos travel faster than light. Then it was found that there were malfunctions in their computers and the study was deemed wrong. Similarly, we need more hard evidence to support the existence of Fifth and Sixth Forces.

And, I would like to say that all forms of life has developed from prokaryotic cells, this is a scientific truth. It is true that we shouldn't pay no heed to religious beliefs. But religion has no place in Science (no offense).

And, no. Black holes cannot be produced by the Hadron Collider. And, sorry, the Earth, water and air is made up of normal matter, not dark energy or dark matter. And there is nothing like ether, Einstein proved the concept of ether wrong. And, again sorry, the thing you call "soul" ia not compatible with Quantum Field Theory and there is not Scientific evidence of soul.

And, there is nothing like whole knowledge. Everything in the universe cannot be known by just knowing one's own Self. Like, can you know about the Center of a black hole by just knowing everything about your human body? The whole thing breaks down to a fact, the Universe is endless, knowledge as well, is endless. Maybe, there is One Truth, but knowledge has no end. You learn until the moment you die.

And, I mean no offence. I just said what my logic says. I mean no offence to you or Indian Philosophy.
 
May 26, 2020
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Hawking says the net sum of mass and energy in the universe is zero. I don’t doubt that if the universe was some cosmic explosion of zero. If dark matter makes up 96% of the universe then we’re missing 46% of the light matter. Am I missing something?
 
May 26, 2020
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Also, the definition of evolution is that nothing today has evolved from something still around . So no, cockroaches and monkeys are not you’re ancestors, cousins at best.
I like your commentary on human origins but I came here to find discussions on the cosmos not debating the fossil record. I go elsewhere for that.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Hawking says the net sum of mass and energy in the universe is zero. I don’t doubt that if the universe was some cosmic explosion of zero. If dark matter makes up 96% of the universe then we’re missing 46% of the light matter. Am I missing something?
No, Dark Matter makes up 26% of the Universe. And the sum of mass and energy of the universe isn't zero, sum of matter and antimatter is, please don't confuse it. According to the present system, Dark Energy makes up almost 70% of the Universe, Dark Matter makes up almost 26% and ordinary of baryonic matter makes up 4% of the whole universe. You were missing this point.

Mod Edit - You know why
 
Last edited by a moderator:
May 26, 2020
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No, Dark Matter makes up 26% of the Universe. And the sum of mass and energy of the universe isn't zero, sum of matter and antimatter is, please don't confuse it. According to the present system, Dark Energy makes up almost 70% of the Universe, Dark Matter makes up almost 26% and ordinary of baryonic matter makes up 4% of the whole universe. You were missing this point.

Mod Edit - You know why
Ok, first apologies for taking the post a little sideways. I thought Hawking's theory was 'nothing' exploded into all these different universal parts, and because of 1st Law it's all net 0. I thought he also theorized 'everything' could implode back to 'nothing'. Is it the case of the Darks and baryonics have some equal and opposite counterpart?
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Ok, first apologies for taking the post a little sideways. I thought Hawking's theory was 'nothing' exploded into all these different universal parts, and because of 1st Law it's all net 0. I thought he also theorized 'everything' could implode back to 'nothing'. Is it the case of the Darks and baryonics have some equal and opposite counterpart?
Well, no. And, I don't like to reply to this thread again.
 
Sir Rameshwar Jamwal,

First of all, I would like to state that I also is from India and am only 12 years old. I would like to say some statements and I mean no offense.

I have heard that there's a proverb in English, "Philosophy starts to think where Science collapses." or something like that. Now, both Science and Philosophy are branches of one tree, the tree of Logic. I believe that everything that happened after the Big Bang has a definite logic. In Physics there is a law (I have forgotten the name, sorry) which states that every work has a reason behind it. And the reason comes before the work in the arrow of time if you look at it in the ascending order.

I guess you mean "Maha Pralay", please correct me if I am wrong. The most common theories about the end of the Universe is the Big Crunch and Big Rip. Most people in the modern Scientific Community believe that the universe will end up in a Big Rip, because of the expanding effect of Dark Energy which might expand the universe so much in the future that it will not remain a single piece. And, there are also many people who believe that the Universe will expand on forever. Only a minor part of the Scientific Community believe that the Universe will again go down to the stage it was in the beginning, I guess you are mentioning this theory while talking about "Maha Pralay".

And, in the last line of the third paragraph of your statement, I guess you mean to ask a question. And also, there are not many studies that say that there is a Fifth Force and a Sixth as well. I read in a magazine about a study done by some physicists and chemists in Hungary. They are still studying about that. We need many other studies to include another Fundamental Force in Physics. We need to prove that in front of the whole scientific community. There are not enough evidences to support that there is a Fifth Fundamental Force. Because that single study could be wrong as well. We know that there was a study on the speed of light and neutrinos which was done in the early 2010s and, as far as I remember, at the first time their calculations said that neutrinos travel faster than light. Then it was found that there were malfunctions in their computers and the study was deemed wrong. Similarly, we need more hard evidence to support the existence of Fifth and Sixth Forces.

And, I would like to say that all forms of life has developed from prokaryotic cells, this is a scientific truth. It is true that we shouldn't pay no heed to religious beliefs. But religion has no place in Science (no offense).

And, no. Black holes cannot be produced by the Hadron Collider. And, sorry, the Earth, water and air is made up of normal matter, not dark energy or dark matter. And there is nothing like ether, Einstein proved the concept of ether wrong. And, again sorry, the thing you call "soul" ia not compatible with Quantum Field Theory and there is not Scientific evidence of soul.

And, there is nothing like whole knowledge. Everything in the universe cannot be known by just knowing one's own Self. Like, can you know about the Center of a black hole by just knowing everything about your human body? The whole thing breaks down to a fact, the Universe is endless, knowledge as well, is endless. Maybe, there is One Truth, but knowledge has no end. You learn until the moment you die.

And, I mean no offence. I just said what my logic says. I mean no offence to you or Indian Philosophy.
An excellent reply by one in whom I have every confidence * * * * *
 
Feb 7, 2020
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indian vedic understanding of cosmology and linkage between cosmology and astrology were pure science then and human intelligence could not but be otherwise than by being able to make sense of stars and patterns, and linking them with lives and developing further upon it, so there is absolutely nothing against our lives going against our stars; we grew our culture and left our heritage that way :)

if for instance two people meet somewhere at some point of time or tie their knot, what else could influence it other than astrology i wonder!
 
Feb 7, 2020
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i extend it even further stating that human emotions are also influenced by astrology so we obviously know who we love if we learn our charts well, and sometimes skip them when we don't learn them properly or learn to hate them by mistake ... for which we can only feel sorry about it later and correct ourselves, now re-aligning selves in the astrology-shown pathways :)
 
Apr 5, 2020
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indian vedic understanding of cosmology and linkage between cosmology and astrology were pure science then and human intelligence could not but be otherwise than by being able to make sense of stars and patterns, and linking them with lives and developing further upon it, so there is absolutely nothing against our lives going against our stars; we grew our culture and left our heritage that way :)

if for instance two people meet somewhere at some point of time or tie their knot, what else could influence it other than astrology i wonder!
Sorry but stars have no link to humans. Astrology is not Science. Sorry again.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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i extend it even further stating that human emotions are also influenced by astrology so we obviously know who we love if we learn our charts well, and sometimes skip them when we don't learn them properly or learn to hate them by mistake ... for which we can only feel sorry about it later and correct ourselves, now re-aligning selves in the astrology-shown pathways :)
Astrology is not Science, Astronomy is. There's a difference between Astrology and Astronomy. The former does not follow the cause-and-effect law.
 
IG, as usual, you are correct.
As a great surprise, I will tell you that, even as a scientist, I have studied astrology. Let me at once confirm that I am not referencing the rubbish where one twelfth of the population, nay, Universe, is supposed to share identical fortunes.
Nor is any sort of 'inverse square law' relevant - as it is for gravity.
I do claim an open mind (not one easily filled, as the saying goes) which filters out rubbish but, on the other hand, does not exclude reasonable lines of investigation. The formation of the planets (I nearly typed 'inner') is an excellent example. I was truly amazed to find out that large H and He contents could survive so long close to a star. But, then, my idea of 'long' is not shared by the Universe at large. :)
 
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Apr 5, 2020
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IG, as usual, you are correct.
As a great surprise, I will tell you that, even as a scientist, I have studied astrology. Let me at once confirm that I am not referencing the rubbish where one twelfth of the population, nay, Universe, is supposed to share identical fortunes.
Nor is any sort of 'inverse square law' relevant - as it is for gravity.
I do claim an open mind (not one easily filled, as the saying goes) which filters out rubbish but, on the other hand, does not exclude reasonable lines of investigation. The formation of the planets (I nearly typed 'inner') is an excellent example. I was truly amazed to find out that large H and He contents could survive so long close to a star. But, then, my idea of 'long' is not shared by the Universe at large. :)
I didn't know I was usually correct.
 
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Dec 11, 2019
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Sorry but stars have no link to humans. Astrology is not Science. Sorry again.
Your forgetting one valuable thing. We are all star dust. The ancients made many stories out of the stars. They didn't have TV or smartphones in those days. :D So entities actually went out and studied the stars. Astrology might not be totally scientific but Astronomy is. Astrology does go back a long long ways though.

Zoroaster and Astrology

Astrology and the Earth's Wobble
The positions of the stars and constellations were different when the ancient astrologers set up their astrological systems long ago. We now know that people are affected not just by the sun, moon and 12 planets of the zodiac, but by much more, new discoveries made every day.
Most astrological systems have some merit but are also flawed. If you don't have good psychic abilities to interpret a person's chart, you are going to make mistakes in predictions about their future, or glimpses into their past (parallel) lives.

If we follow the poles in the procession of the equinoxes it takes us to
a creation myth linked with the constellation Draco and the Anunnaki

Astrology is a pseudoscience whose predictions are open for personal interpretation by the astrologer reading a chart. Our lives are not just influenced by the planets in our solar system, but by the collective unconscious in which we experience this reality. Astrology taken as a guide can be helpful, but is not perfect. An astrological system written long ago, may not take into account the way we live our lives in the 21st century. As with all oracles of divination, it is subjective based on the chart and the astrologer.

Astrology consists of a number of belief systems which hold that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events in the human world. In the West, astrology most often consists of a system of horoscopes that claim to explain aspects of a person's personality and predict future events in their life based on the positions of the sun, moon, and other planetary objects at the time of their birth. Many cultures have attached importance to astronomical events, and the Indians, Chinese, and Mayans developed elaborate systems for predicting terrestrial events from celestial observations.

Among Indo-European peoples, astrology has been dated to the third millennium BCE, with roots in calendrical systems used to predict seasonal shifts and to interpret celestial cycles as signs of divine communications. Through most of its history, astrology was considered a scholarly tradition. It was accepted in political and academic contexts, and was connected with other studies, such as astronomy, alchemy, meteorology, and medicine. At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) called astrology into question, and subsequent controlled studies failed to confirm its predictive value. Astrology thus lost its academic and theoretical standing.

Astrology is a pseudoscience, and as such is rejected by the academic and scientific communities. Some scientific testing of astrology has been conducted, and no evidence has been found to support any of the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological traditions. Furthermore, there is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth that does not contradict well understood, basic aspects of biology and physics.
 
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