The lost Indian Lunar Lander Vikram and Rover Pragyan spotted lying intact on the Moon

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Sep 19, 2020
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Two space enthusiasts, Mr. Jag Mohan Saxena from Bikaner and Dr. Hari Mohan Saxena from Ludhiana have found the lost Indian Lunar Lander Vikram and Rover Pragyan, respectively lying intact and each in single piece on the surface of the Moon. After the failed communication of ISRO Mission Control and the Lunar Orbiter of Chandrayaan 2 mission with the lander during the last stage of landing on 7 September, 2019, many presumed that the lander was destroyed completely due to the impact of the uncontrolled harsh landing. This assumption was turned into firm belief when NASA posted picture of the lunar surface in December, 2019 showing tiny pieces of debris of the lander scattered in an area of several kilometers far away from the scheduled landing site. NASA even endorsed and validated the claim of spotting a tiny piece of debris of the lander by Mr. Shanmuga Subramanian, a techie from Chennai. Surprisingly, the ISRO neither refuted the claim nor verified it nor tried to stop the flood of news items published in the press and disseminated by the TV and the electronic media worldwide announcing the tragic end of the lander. Although the ISRO Chief K. Sivan had given a hurried press statement on 8 September, 2019, the very next day of the mishap, that a thermal image of the lander taken in the dark night by the camera onboard the orbiter has revealed that the lander was intact and in a single piece, he failed to show the image to the public. Even after one year of the incident, the ISRO has not released any image of the ill-fated lander. This lends further credence to the unfounded claim of the techie in the press which has not been verified or endorsed by the ISRO till date.
Interestingly, the NASA story contradicts the claim of the ISRO Chief and the ambiguity continues even till today leaving several questions unanswered. The NASA version of the story seems illogical even to a layman because the lander, losing contact with the Mission control merely 350 meters above the surface of the Moon (having only 1/6th gravity compared to the Earth) cannot lead to disintegration of the metallic lander into tiny pieces of a size hardly discernible by the orbiter camera and scattering in an area of several square kilometers far away from the scheduled landing site. If this was indeed true then how come the ISRO Orbiter find the lander intact in a single piece even in a dark night. However, the mystery deepens further when the ISRO fails to release to the press or post on its website any picture of the lander intact even after one year.
Sensing the ambiguity in the versions of the story propagated by the NASA and the ISRO, a retired banker and space enthusiast Mr. Jag Mohan Saxena initiated his own enquiry to find out the truth. He started scanning the vast imagery of thousands of kilometers of the lunar surface taken by the NASA Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) posted on its website. After several days of hard work, he could finally spot an unusual looking object near the scheduled landing site on the lunar surface which appeared to be different from a boulder and was likely to be a manmade object. He instinctively believed it to be the image of the missing lander. He tweeted the picture to ISRO and NASA scientists requesting them to verify and validate his finding. However, ISRO and NASA did not oblige.
Dejected by the discouraging response of the lunar experts, Mr. Saxena shared the image with his elder brother Dr. Hari Mohan Saxena, a retired Professor of Immunology based in Ludhiana who had earlier served as the Science Counsellor in the Embassy of India in Moscow. He also happens to be a space enthusiast and had even attended a short term space training program at the MIT in USA 32 years ago working on an international lunar base design project sponsored by the International Space University.
Dr. Saxena decided to pursue the investigation further to take it to a logical conclusion. Since the image received by him did not show any characteristic features, he enlarged it several hundred times and decided to get the image processed to get some more details. He asked his daughter Priyanka Saxena, an electronics engineer, currently pursuing PhD at IIT, Jodhpur to process the image for clarity. When she removed the haze and noise from the picture employing software and some algorithm and gave back the processed image to Dr. Saxena, he could recognize some features characteristic of the lander by comparing it with the pictures of the lander available on the web.
Encouraged by the success in identifying the lander, Dr. Saxena searched the LROC images acquired on different dates after the landing and could further consolidate the finding with topographic landmarks and images of the lander taken from different angles and directions. The images clearly indicated that not only did Vikram land on the Moon intact and in a single piece, it also delivered the rover on the lunar surface as evident from the unfolded ramp of the lander. During one of his careful searches of the vast imagery, Dr. Saxena could also spot the Lunar Rover Pragyan lying intact and in a single piece several meters ahead of the lander Vikram.
These findings clearly document the great success of ISRO scientists in successfully landing the Lunar Lander Vikram along with the Rover Pragyan in the South Pole of the Moon where no nation has reached before. Although the claims and stories of destruction of the lander propagated in the press and media succeeded in hogging the limelight, they misled the public. The endeavours of the two enthusiasts, Mr. Jag Mohan Saxena and Dr. Hari Mohan Saxena, who discovered the lander Vikram and the rover Pragyan, respectively unveiled the truth. The contribution of Priyanka Saxena was no less since revealing of the lander like features by image processing was the turning point in the discovery.
 
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COLGeek

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Apr 3, 2020
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We have several images supporting our claim. One can verify from the images at LROC website using these coordinates.
Now you have switched to first person writing, as opposed to the third person writing of the original post. Just an observation.

Assuming you are correct, "intact" doesn't mean operational. If intact, I don't understand why ISRO wouldn't declare some sort of success.

I have to say, the image quality really doesn't give a great deal of credence to your argument. While I am certainly no expert, I don't see what you claim is there.
 
Mar 5, 2020
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A NASA fabricated story having loose ends? Fake Science was a lot easier when other countries did not have their own space programs. Don’t try to look for a motive it wouldn’t be a sane motive even if you did find it.

Sounds like the ISRO has a serious mole infestation. The more western science awards (and funding) the more likely that such a person is receiving orders from outside of India.

Western science is for western success, nobody else’s.
 
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The public image of science operating for the benefit of all mankind is one of the greatest works of propaganda in history. Science serves the powerful and the motives of the powerful are quite mad.
 
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Were the communications for the probe going through the Deep Space Network (DSN)?

DSN is a wretched hive of scum and villainy tasked with covering up all the violations of GR that would lead to an actual understanding of gravitation.

It is likely that the Vikram’s transmitter might shift frequency indicating a temporal issue (like the Moon’s galactic inertial field) and as soon as NASA detected any such issue, they would have shut down the communications.

Space probe transmitters and oscillators have a nasty tendency to show physical phenomenon that NASA violently insists do not exist. Instead of the quiet rational world of science imagine a mentality at NASA that is more like that found in “The Lord of the Flies”.
 
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Would the deployment of the rover been an automatic action or would it need to be commanded (through communications) from the ground to do it? If deployment of the rover did require a ground command it would bring up an interesting question.

If this interpretation of the landing site is correct. The lander successfully landed, communications were established long enough to deploy the rover and then communications were intentionally cut off.

If a higher resolution image of the site does determine that the lander landed successfully and the rover was deployed (which would leave tracks) and not ejected by a rough landing then NASA is lying (again).

After the sabotage of the Phobos/Grunt Russian Mars mission, the Chinese would keep their destinations and space activities a secret.

The Indian Space Program might find the Russian and Chinese scientists quite informative if they were willing to listen with an open mind.
 
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Conspiracies and conspirators are not always rational. Given the capabilities of the Indian lander and rover about the only threat I can see to imperial science is the transmitter itself and the southern landing site in particular (southern lunar galactic inertial pole).

Previously I have proposed a modification of a masses gravitational field which gives rise to the inertial field which keeps a mass in motion. The inertial field terminations (gradients in time decreasing with distance from the axis of motion) on a spherical mass can be mapped out with clocks. The oscillators in spacecraft transmitters are quite stable clocks and the rotation of the body (the Moon) moves the clocks cyclically closer and farther from the Moons galactic inertial pole. Providing lots of data points to define a new phenomenon.

1 Likely the transmitter or oscillator would have run a little bit slow at all times since it was near the trailing edge of the galactic component of the lunar inertial field.

2 The transmitter’s frequency would have cycled between two frequency boundaries during the lunar day (27 or so days).

The amount of time rate offset (as frequency change) could not be easily lied away by saying it was a relativistic or GR effect. New Physics that defines a relationship between time and inertia that a lot of people in America, England, and other scientific scum have known about for at least 50 years.

Secret science always had a shelf life. Either the secret science would produce the super weapon that would give the Empire total supremacy or someone would stumble upon it and publicize it before they could be murdered.

But in the meantime, U S Imperial science could pretend to be helpful to other nations while looking over their shoulders and secretly planting scientific managers to sabotage science in those countries. Since WWII how many UN special scientific committees have been created and financed by the Americans? The Americans would bomb you as quickly as they would look at you, yet they are so very generous in their support of UN science?

The really cruel part of the potential sabotage of the Indian lander is that the measurements which the Empire intended to prevent can easily be done on Earth.

See

https://forums.space.com/threads/the-sun’s-direction-of-galactic-motion-as-determined-by-clock-rate-differences.33621/
 
Sep 21, 2020
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Woah, are you alright there? Have you ignored the fact that NASA is alot more open with its findings then other space agencies? CNSA (Chinese Space Agency) doesn't even tell you the name of their planned space station, while NASA lets Kindergarteners take a virtual tour of theirs, and your telling me that America is the sneaky ones? Look I am an american and maybe I am blinded by a bit of national pride (our flag is on the moon) and I admit the golden age of NASA has gone, but I would certainly prefer NASA over a secretive space agency like that of China, Russia, etc.
 
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NASA Lied about the age of the Moon rocks to protect an oil company secret that interstellar asteroids create the geological conditions for oil.

https://forums.space.com/threads/the-effects-of-interstellar-impacts-in-terrestrial-geology.30959/

https://forums.space.com/threads/interstellar-asteroid-impacts-and-ring-dike-complexes.31010/



NASA is directly hiding the data which would lead to a workable theory of gravitation.

https://forums.space.com/threads/advanced-spacecraft-and-secret-science.30843/



And NASA is more than a little involved in this plot to dominate and blockade space.

https://forums.space.com/threads/the-starlink-minefield-the-stealth-domination-of-space.32565/



Don’t let the humor fool you. A good joke can cut to the bone.

NASA’s early managers worked for the Nazis. NASA has never strayed far from its founding traditions.
 
Sep 21, 2020
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Hold up- yes, Werner von Braun worked for the Nazis, but he chose America instead of Russia. Doesn't that say something? He was a part of the Golden Age of NASA, you sound alot like your about to tell me NASA never landed on the Moon and it was a cover up. Im not saying NASA is perfect, but it isn't the Nazi Aeronautics and Space Administration either.

Starlink is a mine field? dude do you really think SpaceX is an arms dealer? They are communications satellites, nothing more. I mean do you realize how big space is? Any space craft departing earth could easily avoid getting near a starlink with ease.

This reminds me of how that scene in Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back has dominated how people view asteroid fields. They see them as a large band of closely packed rocks that are constantly crashing into each other and must be swerved around in great action scenes. This is not the case. A space ship passing through our asteroid belt would barely notice them, maybe viewing a bright star to the right and left on its way through the region. Do you thing Voyager 1 and 2 would be capable of pulling a Han Solo to get to Jupiter? of course not, yet they were there. Starlink satellites could be easily avoided, and I think if there was a possibility of them being a weapon china etc would be taking more immediate action. But they aren't because they realize that they are nothing more than 'wifi for everyone".
 
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The Starlink Satellites include propulsion technology from the X-37B project whose beginnings go back to the end of WWII.

The Starlink satellite is vastly more maneuverable than listed in the published specifications. It can accelerate hundreds of times faster then the specified ion thruster would allow. The only down side is that the Starlink can only sprint until it exhausts its battery. It seems to take about a day to recharge its battery.

The phased array “internet” also works really well for target tracking and in fine maneuvering a direct collision.

It has direct satellite to satellite optical laser communications producing an unjammable command and control network.

The phased array “internet” and the network allow it to swarm and collide with hostile vehicles trying to achieve Earth orbit. “Hostile” being defined by American Exceptionalism.

A Salamander might force water over its gills by opening and closing its mouth.
 
Sep 21, 2020
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"The Starlink Satellites include propulsion technology from the X-37B project whose beginnings go back to the end of WWII. " What does that prove? Its old technology? Why would the original purpose of the engine affect the purpose of the vessel?

"The Starlink satellite is vastly more maneuverable than listed in the published specifications. It can accelerate hundreds of times faster then the specified ion thruster would allow. The only down side is that the Starlink can only sprint until it exhausts its battery. It seems to take about a day to recharge its battery. " Even acceleration would not matter. This website shows satellites currently in orbit. http://stuffin.space/?search=starlink
Search 'starlink' and you can see the current starlink count. look how far away the red dots are, they look close, but look at the ground underneath them, they are miles and miles apart, a spacecraft would have plenty of warning before a collision, and how far do you think a starlink satellite can move? they are pretty small I doubt they can travel very far at high speeds.

"The phased array “internet” also works really well for target tracking and in fine maneuvering a direct collision.
It has direct satellite to satellite optical laser communications producing an unjammable command and control network.
The phased array “internet” and the network allow it to swarm and collide with hostile vehicles trying to achieve Earth orbit. “Hostile” being defined by American Exceptionalism. " You would have to be very precise to target a spacecraft. Are Starlink satellites equipped with that kind of precise maneuvering thursters? The fancy communications is useless with out the hardware to do it. Also, in case you haven't noticed, Starlink is run by SpaceX, not NASA. Somehow I don't think America would entrust it's minefield to a billionaire with souped up dreams of nuking mars, etc.
 
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The Constitutionally controlled government of the United States would not entrust “a billionaire with souped up dreams of nuking mars, etc.”

Did I mention the strip mining and theft of “Unobtanium”? Include James Cameron's space program on the naughty list too.
 
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