The Venture Star

[dryson]

If anyone has seen Avatar then you have most likely seen the Venture Star. How feasible would this design be in actually traveling to closely distantt planet like Pandora? Save for the engine design how would the rest of the ship stand up to the rigors of space?

Does anyone know what type of engine could actually be used to get us to the destination in the same amount of time that the Venture Star reached Pandora?

 

[MeteorWayne]

This belongs in Space Business and technology with the other Venture Star threads. It is nota current Mission or Launch.

 

[menellom]

This belongs in Space Business and technology with the other Venture Star threads. It is nota current Mission or Launch.

Actually it probably belongs in Science Fiction.

 

[EarthlingX]

This belongs in Space Business and technology with the other Venture Star threads. It is nota current Mission or Launch.

Actually it probably belongs in Science Fiction.

Or maybe not:
New Shuttle, Let's dust off Venture Star!

A Kerosene-Fueled X-33 as a Single Stage to Orbit Vehicle.

 

[menellom]

This belongs in Space Business and technology with the other Venture Star threads. It is nota current Mission or Launch.

Actually it probably belongs in Science Fiction.

Or maybe not:
New Shuttle, Let's dust off Venture Star!

A Kerosene-Fueled X-33 as a Single Stage to Orbit Vehicle.

The thread isn't asking about Venture Star, it's asking about FTL.

 

[MeteorWayne]

I stand corrected. I thought it was serious. My bad.

 

[EarthlingX]

The thread isn't asking about Venture Star, it's asking about FTL.

Ooops ..

Here is a thread, that i know about, dealing with SF bordering propulsion:
space propulsion

 

[nimbus]

The Avatar VS is based on an SF design made by a physicist... Lots of details here:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/01/spaces ... ar-is.html

 

[EarthlingX]

The Avatar VS is based on an SF design made by a physicist... Lots of details here:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/01/spaces ... ar-is.html

Hm.. i was just about to start digging out info on Antimatter drive, this is probably safer place than Physics

 

[dryson]

Are there any other forms of propulsion not as demanding that would yield the same results?

Here is my concept called the IPS Pilyhas-1. She is built from I.S.S. Modules. The MPLM/A and B are more resilient versions of the MPLM, the Jules Verne Engineering Section are two Jules Vernes sectioned at the engine (the engines removed) and placed section to section with CBM ports at both ends. The JV is the section of the ship that would house the components for solar panel operation to collect solar energy to convert into electrical power. The engine section is the only real set-back with my design. The MPLM/A logistic modules each carry around 10 to 15 tons of cargo the MPLM/B can carry around 20 to possibly 30 tons of cargo for a total of 40-60 + 20-30 = 90-110 tons of cargo for the standard crew of six to haul to a station, Moon or Mars.
The Orion/A CM has been redesigned to be used as a command deck only with only four seats out of six being present, Commander and the CO-Pilot, System's Operation Engineeer and the Communications Officer. The C/EM is the Crew Emergency module that is used as a lfieboat in case of emergency and can sustain the crew with supplies for three weeks. Basically the module is a suped up Node Three. The Ship even has the joint Quest Airlock incorporated into it's design to allow for docking with CBM fitted ships and EVA activities.

The ship would be built in space at the Construction facility which is based off of the I.S.S. design save that the habitat and science modules have been replaced with truss framework for the Canadian Arm to grapple the components at the PDGF to put the modules in place to be assembled.
Link to the MS Paint PDF version of the Pilyhas-1
https://acrobat.com/#d=JTWKPba7rgMUEiFlv*cEVg
This ship can be configured in many ways between the C/Em and the JV Modules. Shorter versions can be built for trips to the Moon or Lunar stations orbiting Luna for delivery of crew only. Cupola's can be added at any of the CBM ports to allow outisde viewing of Earth, Luna or other spacial phenom's.

 

[EarthlingX]

Sorry, that link doesn't work with FireFox and Acrobat Plugin, at least not for me ..

And as you started this, i think it smells more of SB&T .. :lol:
Is this thread on the move, or yes .. ?

Just tell us, what kind of engine are you talking about ?

 

[dryson]

An engine that has the ability to push maybe 1000 tons of ship to at least .25c to .30c or 89,937,737.4 meters a second. The next part of the math is a little fuzzy to me. How long would it take the 1000 ton ship traveling at 89,937,737.4 m sec or .089 km sec to travel the 4.37 light years to Alpha Centauri. A light year is 9,460,730,472,580.8 km. Would I multiply the 9 trillion kilometers by 4.37 and then divide by .089 km sec that the ship would travel?

The engine would need to be able to propell the ship to at least .30c.

 

[MeteorWayne]

As long as you realize this is fantasy, Why not do it the simple way?

4.37 LY * (1/0.3c) = 14.6 years. Of course, that unrealistically assumes you instantly accelerate from 0 to 0.3 C here, and instantly decelerate from 0.3 to 0 c when you get there. That'll leave a mark (see Ludicrous Speed scene in Spaceballs )

MW

 

[dryson]

I also have a question about solar sails. Could a sail be used to propell a vehicle forward in an emergency type scenario, in this case the OCM/C/EM (Orion Command Module and Crew Emergency liferaft) or the first two components of the Pilyhas-1, where the liferaft craft seperates from the damaged ship, deploying it's solar sails and then using intermintent blasts of vectored exhaust from thrusters to enable the craft to move away from the damaged ship towards the Moon, Earth or I.S.S. What I mean by intermintent is the thrust exhaust would fire towards the direction of the sail and then shut off allowing a gap or pause between each blast into the sail.

 

[dryson]

[quoteAs long as you realize this is fantasy, Why not do it the simple way?

4.37 LY * (1/0.3c) = 14.6 years. Of course, that unrealistically assumes you instantly accelerate from 0 to 0.3 C here, and instantly decelerate from 0.3 to 0 c when you get there. That'll leave a mark (see Ludicrous Speed scene in Spaceballs )

MW][/quote]
I know that the engines wouldnt be instantenous like warp drive engines are, but those will come in time.

My ship is not a fantasy ship either. It is designed from I.S.S. component modules such as Node's 1 - 3, the joint quest airlock MPLM and cupola all of which are real components. Most of what we ahve today in the realm of science has come from some form of science - fiction from 50 to seventy years ago.

14.6 years isn't that bad of a journey time really. You launch the first scout explorer ship then every two years after that you launch another with more cargo and thbuilding supplies. If all goes well in twenty years you could have ten ships arriving to Alpha Centauri every two years given that a giant space paramecium doesnt gobble up one of the ships.

I was also thinking about adding the Vasimir or Helicon Double Layer Thruster to the engine suite. Does anyone have any particulars on these engines as to what their rated thrust potential to travel speed divided by total mass accelerated would be?

 

[dryson]

Here is another idea but is unfeasible at this time. The idea incoporates the NIF (National Ignition Facility) process and the Vasimir. If you look at the Vasimir (link below) and attached it to the NIF, the reactions that occure within the NIF can be transferred into the Vasimir possibly resulting in the same outcome but would not require large amounts of fuel to be carriered. The only real problem with this design is the size of the NIF itself. Once the process of the NIF has been reduced in size I think this coupling of engine and facility could pave the way for a completely new mode of propulsion to send ships out into space with.

Link: https://acrobat.com/#d=SPUvYgVxpT1Sz*rC5zlL7Q

 

[MeteorWayne]

what is unrealistic is your assertion that 0.3 c is attainable anytime in the next few centuries.

 

[dryson]

The rate at which technology increases doubles every two years because computer parts keep getting smaller and smaller which translates into faster rates of information exchange as well as the ability to calculate at an increased rate of speed. As technology increases every two years so to does the rate at which we can control energetic reactions based on computer assisted propogations of the very particles contained with the energetic reaction that creates the thrust potential. I'd say in maybe 20 years NASA will be using programs that will be able to precisely inject the right particle at the right time in the propogation to achieve a much higher rate of thrust exhaust velocity. This is not an assertation but a fact based on technological achievements that have doubled every two years because of Moore' Law. The more transistors that you have the more computing power that you have.

 

[MeteorWayne]

All more or less true. What the heck does that have to do with the ability to accelerate spacecraft to 0.3 c? ???

 

[EarthlingX]

Here is a collection of links to forum threads, among them info on VASIMR, calculators for relativity speeds, information about rocket engines, and some more.
Just take your time
List of Multiple Threads on the Same Topic

Then go and check SDC video section, you might find something interesting there too.

 

[nimbus]

MW - Sounds like he means a technological singularity would make .3c feasible within the next few centuries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity YMMV

 

[MeteorWayne]

It's a moot point for me. First of all, I have a decade or two left.

Second, projections of what "might" be feasible without any logic to support it in a few centuries is pure speculation, and could be just as easily wrong as right.

 

[Gravity_Ray]

Actually dryson has discovered unobtainum. Thats the stuff that dryson uses to get under MW's skin with out even trying at the speed of 90%c.

:lol:

 

[nimbus]

:lol:

MW - Take care of yourself. You never know.
http://www.sens.org/

 

[EarthlingX]

:lol:

MW - Take care of yourself. You never know.
http://www.sens.org/

Yea, or we get cloned and do a little mind transfer, no biggie
Happens in almost any decent movie ... :roll:

Talking about the mind transfer .. If we find a way to disassemble and reassemble matter (yea, right) , our limit is the speed of information, and i have suspicions, not all has been said there ..

I hope, this thread is in no danger to finish in some Unexplained anymore ?
:?