They don't make movies like they used to.....

jmilsom · Sep 17, 2004

I finally watched Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" the other day. A very impressive film. Thinking about Movies and Sci Fi books I can't help but think we are going backwards these days. No one makes painfully incisive films like " A Clockwork Orange" or "Rollerball" (Original - did they do a remake) or "Planet of the Apes" anymore. These have been replaced with "Independence Day", "Bad Boys II" and "Armageddon." It's like film-makers no longer believe their audience can think anymore and have to exaplin everything to them. How about the guy in the mucous in Aliens 4, explaining what was going on like David Attenborough because the audience is too stupid. One of the most ridiculous things I've seen in any movie. Thunderbirds has been replaced by Power Rangers Kimba has been replaced by Courage the Cowardly Dog The Goodies and Doctor Who have been replaced by ??? nothing I suppose. Who has stepped up to fill PKDick's shoes? Is it because the Cold War is over and we are not imminently threatened, so we do not feel we have to examine what we're doing anymore? It seems like now more than ever we need to cultivate insight and throughtfulness yet seem to be debraining ourselves. This should probably go in the "Posting while intoxicated thread," but I wouldn't mind some thoughts along these lines from the people that frequent the Sci Fi forum. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

mooware · Sep 17, 2004

I think it's all primarily because of short attention spans, Instant gratification syndrome, and films that make you think don't make money. and money is the name of the game.

wmdragon · Sep 17, 2004

How about the guy in the mucous in Aliens 4, explaining what was going on like David Attenborough because the audience is too stupid thats a funny image have sci fi movies really gone that bad? the blockbuster shallow, crowd-pleasing trend cannot be denied, but selective memory may be at play too. we look around now and see all the recent unsatisfying scifi out there, but when we look back we may concentrate on the classics, not accounting for lots of bad, old scifi. point is: has the bad/good scifi movie ratio really changed that much these past few decades? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Sep 17, 2004

jimilson - You're right. There's a lack of true "sci-fi" in the films presented today. The Sci-Fi of yesteryear is classic, not just because of nostalgia, but because the emphasis was on "storytelling", "character development", "plotline" and, of course, Science Fiction. In my opinion, "special effects" has dominated the Sci-Fi film industry since Lucas combined miniatures with bluescreens. Too many producers tried to capture the spectacle of the classic Star Wars production. Of course, Sci-Fi has always been about "science" fiction. Therefore, we have to have some neat gadgets hanging around. Some movies were able to overcome this or avoid it all-together. But, I can't think of any at the moment that were not true-to-story book adaptions. Humor has become a focus also. Wil Smith did alot to contribute towards a humor-focus in Sci-Fi films. MIB and Independence Day were decent flicks. However, Wil's dominant presence put some of the focus on humor. (Don't get me wrong, I like Wil and think he did a great job in those.) One thing that I think brings us back to real "sci-fi" is many of the later "Outer Limits" episodes. Even though many are remakes of older episodes, the ones that are not qualify as good, basic, sci-fi. Lord, help save us from recent "adaptions" of classic Sci-Fi books. "Battlefield Earth" is a great example of someone (John Travolta) taking a dyed-in-the-woll-classic-definite-hit and turning it into one of the worst films ever made. All because he had to put his particular "interpretation" on it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. One thing that I am tired of seeing is movies being made to focus just on the actors portraying a character. To be frank, instead of focusing on developing the character, many movies focus on developing the "actor." I don't wish to watch an actor and their response to storyline situations. I want to see the character the actor is portraying respo <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

Leovinus · Sep 17, 2004

I thought the first Matrix movie was both a blockbuster and good sci-fi. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

kelle · Sep 17, 2004

In newer sci-fi films they seem to be concentrating more and more on special effects. After all, movies with awesome special effects and action are entertaining and usually get a lot of pr and viewers and such. And the sci-fi genre is excellent for showing off some nifty computer-generated special effects. But some times, story and such seems to become lost within all the effects. But still, good sci-fi movies are still being made. I also like for instance "The Matrix" (even though the follow-ups are not good) and "MiB". But it's a sad fact that movies with awesome special effects doesn't need a very good storyline to become successes, before when they has less possibilities for making computer generates effects the movies had to have a good story to become popular. And as computers get more and more power we might see more and more movies that depend heavily on a lot of computer generated images and action, and less on story and such. So we may have lost something.

a_lost_packet_ · Sep 17, 2004

Leovinus - I thought the first Matrix movie was both a blockbuster and good sci-fi. It was. Actually, from a Sci-Fi story perspective, the other two weren't that bad either. (ie: Men in the Walls backstory) However, the "assembly" just didn't fit together right in making the transition to the theatres. There were too many holes left in the story in the minds of the viewers. While the key points were in the screenplay, they weren't emphasized very well. Instead, there was a focus on "let's do that 3-D fight scene stuff again" and "we need a real eye-popper special effects thingie here" etc. To be honest, they didn't meld the special effects with the storyline very well either.. imho. How many people do we know who came away with a clear picture of the plot of the story and the overall storyline/plot that stretched across the series? .. Not many made the "leap." They didn't have enough help. It was a complicated story and constitutes fairly "deep" sci-fi. I'm not surprise that many viewers didn't "get it." Again, all just my opinion. But, like I said, there are exceptional sci-fi movies out there that seem to buck the trend of focusing on "big splash" special effects. The first Matrix was one of them. To be honest, I think that some of the fans of the Matrix series were overwhelmed by the "surprise" plot in the first movie. They just kept coming back expecting in hopes of getting that "surprise" feeling again... (ie: I see dead people.) I enjoyed the first Matrix. I think it was done fairly well. I'll also add that I can't stand Keano but was able to look past that in "The Matrix." <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

wmdragon · Sep 17, 2004

thats a good assessment of the Matrix series. the 1st movie's novelty and its 'surprise' were one of the finest wow scifi moments Ive had. sequels didnt live up to that original impression <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

commander_keen · Sep 18, 2004

Sometimes I think that Star Wars was both a blessing and curse. On one hand, it made us forget like we're watching a movie like no other film could, and gave us many memorable characters, scenes, battles and themes. On the other hand, Lucas used Star Wars to launch the trend of 'big summer block-buster films' with lots of marketing and toy-tie ins. Its like Star Wars was both the glorious end of the sci-fi genre and the &%$#@! child of the new trends in movies.

jmilsom · Sep 18, 2004

The music industry is the same. I read that the biggest buyers of CDs are girls in the age bracket 11 to 15, hence the rise of the “boy band.” You see really talented musicians wasting away in suburban pubs, and groups of five smarmy, gesticulating, formulaic fsticks butchering old classics to the delight of the masses. Yes, it’s interesting isn’t it. I guess it is that we are becoming more consumer driven. Just compare Lucas’ era changing (for good or bad – good point c_k) Star Wars (episode iv) with Episode I (which also seemed to be targeting the 11-15 year old age bracket). A_lost_packet_ I agree with your comments about taking the best stories and building the roles around the actors rather than vice versa. In this light, it is better than the classic stories be made without top billing actors (but that wouldn’t make money). I saw a very good Swedish SciFi movie a couple of years ago, that captured the magic, because they were unknowns and were playing roles rather than showcasing themselves! Leo, I also agree The Matrix was a classic but something went awry with the sequels I thought. Wmdragon –it’s a while since I saw it, but that scene really sticks in my mind, when Ripley stumbles in on the mega-monster, a guy in the mucous rather than being in shock and gibbering gives a rather thoughtful account – triggering one of the loadest groans I have ever omitted in a movie. Kelle, the big blockbusters are entertaining for sure, but some of the older sci fi classics, are spellbinding, beautiful to watch, engrossing, and leave and indelible mark on you. The big blockbusters, are so focussed on special effects, they are full of mistakes and anomalies (can someone please explain to me why they unloaded the high powered machine gun onto the asteroid in Aramageddon – just so we could all go “ho, ho - space dementia”). KR – yes I saw the ad bar – Wooh Hooh! – (no idea what its about though – is it Moorcock derived <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

summoner · Sep 18, 2004

To be honest, I think that is just a cycle. The moviemakers have a new toy(computer graphics) and they will use it for the story instead of to asist a story. What will happen soon though is that those grapics will get to a point where you won't be able to tell them from real life. When we reach this point, movies will have to go back to being good stories as well as having good graphics and 'eye candy'. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width:271px;background-color:#FFF;border:1pxsolid#999"><tr><td colspan="2"><div style="height:35px"><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/htmlSticker1/language/www/US/MT/Three_Forks.gif" alt="" height="35" width="271" style="border:0px" /></div>

jcdenton · Sep 18, 2004

What will happen soon though is that those grapics will get to a point where you won't be able to tell them from real life. When we reach this point, movies will have to go back to being good stories as well as having good graphics and 'eye candy'. You have to realize people back in the 70s and 80s (the golden era of science fiction), had different expectations and tastes than what they have now. Movies with good stories that make you think just don't sell with today's mainstream MTV pop culture. Even if the level of CGI reaches photo-realism, people will still want to see these movies for an adrenaline rush, which is why we're seeing more and more movies like Van Helsing. Stories come second. Movie producers and writers realize this. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Sep 19, 2004

Some recent ideas SF that nobody has mentioned are Gattacca and Minority report. The Matrix triology was an example of SF films that were both CGI and action tours de force and extraordinarily rich in philosophical content and religious imagery to an extraordinary degree. Seeing the remake of Solaris and I Robot with zero expectations I was plesantly surprised by both. Although I robot disposed of the Asimovian laws in a very cavalier fashion there were some very interesting ideas about emergent consciousness and selfhood. Most of the more dreadful SF of the 70's and 80's has disappeared into the darker recesses of video stores. Battlestar Galactica for example. Cheers Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

kelle · Sep 19, 2004

Yeah, Solaris I had forgotten. That was not full of action and CG-effects, and was built on story and eerie-ness. I really liked it, though I haven't seen the original, so I don't know if that was better or worse. I, Robot on the other hand, was a very typical action and CG movie, though it had a good story. Very entertaining it was certainly, at least in my eyes.

nacnud · Sep 19, 2004

I've seen the origninal solaris and enjoyed it but not seen the new one. So I can compare them either. Fat lot of good that post did <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

wmdragon · Sep 21, 2004

Maybe when directors once again begin to tackle HP Lovecraft we'll get a better idea where this is heading...... from your lips to the grotesque ears of the Old Ones! there is one video game coming, looks promising. I had a visualization a few nights ago of the last scene in Call of Cthulhu, big screen and big special effects, but action-movie style. guess I have been corrupted. I miss the lost HP Lovecraft thread *sigh* <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

jmilsom · Sep 22, 2004

I have not seen Solaris, but its on my list now. Have never got into Lovecraft, played a bit of Cthulu when I was younger but that is about it. Well as fate would have it I saw Alien 4 again last night - it is actually called Alien Resurrection and it is even worse than I remember! This is the one where they try to breed humans and Aliens and Ripley struts around like a cavewoman. Yes in the penultimate scene, not only does the guy narrate the audience through the last scene calmly from his casing in the mucous. He is narrating when the big mother ALien gives birth to a big ugly Alien- human baby human style. The big alien is screaming in pain as if she were have a difficult labour in a suburban maternity ward!!! Attenborough style lines like "Ahh, she is giving birth, but this time there are no eggs." and "[coo] you are a beautiful, beautiful butterfly." It is horrific considering that Alien and Aliens were classics. That is the true horror. I live in a remote part of Asia and no matter where you are, you can get all the Chinese channels. Apart from CCTV9, I get Hollywood channel from Taiwan, which pumps out Western third rate trash films. The films are awful, but sometimes I want to watch an English film. I just saw another called "Critical Mass" in which they were running around a power station - the entire final scene was purchased from another film (Universal Soldier - and I happened to see just the last bit of this the week before), with different shots cut in from the second film. Hey, why don't you start a new Lovecraft thread. I am going to free space to start a "cheesiest lines from films" thread and I'll start with another from Aliens 4! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

wmdragon · Sep 22, 2004

kalter_rauch what did you think of In The Mouth of Madness? not an adaptation, but inspired by HPLs work, literally (and literarily?) my Call of Cthulhu visualization was just a fun exercise I often indulge in, bringing scenes from books and stories to visual life with my imagination and the power of today's special FX (i.e. if I had some Hollywood power, I would do it like THIS). it was a modern, action-oriented version of the final scene (ramming a tugboat into the Great Cthulhu?! laaaame). world detects big oceanic/seismic anomaly in the Pacific, world sends navy fleets to investigate and finds huge hole in the sea from which the alien city rises - crawling with hideous fish men - (the image somewhat inspired by my ride on the Niagara Falls tour boat, I felt I was in the middle of a sinking hole in the ocean), from the middle of the city Cthulhu awakens, a towering octopoid, fluid mass of horror, navy crews go insane - catatonic, suicidal, paranoid, homicidal - in the chaos a handful of self-sacrificing, occult-savvy heroes manage to get to the city and restore the Elder Sign to abort Cthulhus awakening. I considered throwing in an ineffective nuclear strike against R'lyeh for good measure. now what would be a music score for that? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

wmdragon · Sep 23, 2004

Heston has a minor role in the movie, a book publisher. check it out, its sort of a self-referential, meta-lovecraft story. there is also a cheap, bad horror movie titled Necronomicon (I think), a collection of stories. some do a little honor to his work. hmmm, a battleship rammed down cthulhu's throat ... yes, truly spectacular. inspired by anime by any chance? (seen some similar scenes). the tugboat was not my idea, but a reference to the original story, which Im checking now and see I was wrong: for some reason I mis-remembered the boat that head-butted the monster as a tugboat. in any case, Im not clear how the heroes in my scene would get to save the day, but something 'droll' would certainly ruin the effect! similarities with the lame Independence Day would be humiliating the average theater patron would at least have the consolation of knowing the crew was TRYING to "win one for The Gipper"!!! consolation?! this is an HPL story we are talking about, no consolation for anyone is allowed <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

wmdragon · Sep 23, 2004

One could suppose that the first H-Bomb tests at Bikini and continuing all the way through the French nuclear tests in the south Pacific were all part of a desperate Secret WORLD WAR being conducted against The Deep Ones!!! I like that, make the bombs help instead of hinder the rise of Cthulhu, and you give it a Godzilla-twist <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

wmdragon · Sep 23, 2004

but look down your throat in a mirror...that THING...the "uvula"...isn't THAT a Cthuluoid appendage?!?!? funny, thanks for the laugh. reminded of my wife's recent comment. she just read The Lurker at the Threshold, liked it but was annoyed with HPLs over-fondness and repetition of the word 'octopoid'. did you see the movie Blade II? they had a similar idea when they designed the mutant vampires (image attached, from http://www.blade2.com/html.html ) wouldn't be fitting to have the Captain of the Missouri be miraculously saved, like Capt. LaVey of the Indianapolis......only to stand trial for the loss of his ship and crew?!?!? yes, the trial as the first scene in the movie, a start for the restrospective narrative. so we have a beginning and an end already <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

wmdragon · Sep 23, 2004

indeed, I was getting very close to suggesting reanimating the long gone HPL thread. maybe a title derived from one of his works? I'll wait for the unwholesome arrival of the HPL thread before posting further as for Blade II, its a vampire action movie, nothing related to HPL (unless you consider all modern horror/monster stories influenced by him somehow). although, some of the Blade II director's sketches were quite lovecraftian. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

wmdragon · Sep 23, 2004

The Call of Lovecraft? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Sep 23, 2004

In the Mouth of Madness.. In the Mouth of Madness -Movietone I think I saw this in theatres. It was .. bad. There are alot of Lovecraftian themes wound in various horror flicks. I can't count how many I've seen. Here's an obscure one: There was an interesting movie done by HBO involving a private investigator (Fred Ward) and the Cthulu mythos. Here's the description and link: Cast a Deadly Spell (1991)- HBO Production Fred Ward, Julianne Moore In this crackling HBO Original Movie that laces detective thrills with a menacing occult edge, '40s gumshoe H. Phillip Lovecraft (Fred Ward) takes on a case that could be his last. Hired by a rich client to locate a stolen book about black magic in only 48 hours, Lovecraft's undercover work reveals a startling fact: the book could destroy the world if it falls into the wrong hands. Can he tangle with vicious forces in search of the ultimate power-and a dangerous femme fatale-and live to tell about it? It wasn't half bad. Not alot of "horror" but fun to watch. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

wmdragon · Sep 24, 2004

Cast a Deadly Spell (1991)- HBO Production Fred Ward, Julianne Moore goodness, I completely forgot that one. enjoyable, yes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The only laws of matter are those which our minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter. --- James Clerk Maxwell </div>

They don't make movies like they used to.....

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