This must be a crackpot theory.

[mojobilly]

O.K. I'd like to believe I am open minded here to possibility. But this one beats all.<br /><br />This guy in my school has this whole “Death Star” theory thing going. (You've heard it before maybe.) And he believes NASA and the rest of the world's scientific community are in a conspiracy to cover it up to keep people from panicking.<br /><br />His theory is that a brown dwarf is in a far orbit around the solar system. And that when it draws closest again it will cause a massive catastrophe has comets are sent raining into to the inner solar system from the Oort cloud by the gravity disruption it will cause.<br /><br />He says it must exist for the following reason. If the Oort cloud contains material with 10% to 40% percent the mass of Earth. And that the material for the cloud was ejected out that far by the gravity of the outer planets. Yet the gas giants are in nearly the same positions where they formed, not closer to the Sun. Then there must be some unseen force of gravity that must have held them back.<br /><br />My problem with the theory is this. I thought scientist now believed the mass of all the material in the Oort cloud was about 2% the mass of Earth now. And how could an object about one and a half times the size of Jupiter, with about 30 to 50 times it's mass go unnoticed in models of the solar system? I know a brown dwarf would be near impossible to physically see. But wouldn't all that mass cause some noticeable effects on objects in the solar system if it was there orbiting it?<br /><br />I don't wanna call the guy a quack or anything. (Actually, yes, I'm burning to.) But is there any scientific data to support this? (I mean the idea of a brown dwarf in orbit with Sun. I wont even get into the nonsense of the conspiracy theory to cover it up.)

 

[kmarinas86]

sounds like the planet x concoction <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />

 

[kmarinas86]

If that's the case then we should have noticed some stars "disappearing"...

 

[ldyaidan]

I have a book on this called Nemisis: The Death Star. Very interesting book. I wouldn't say he's a crackpot, just someone with a theory. I guess unless we actually see it with one of our telescopes, or "doomsday" actually comes, we may never know for sure.<br /><br />Rae

 

[mojobilly]

I guess my real problem with the “Rain of Comets” theory is the lack of scarring I would expect it to leave across the solar system. Not so much on the planets, but across the moons and asteroid belt. If there was this sudden major increase in long term comets every 22 million years, ones where it would be guaranteed that the Earth was hit. Then we could safely assume that most sizable objects in the solar system would be hit as well during this.<br /><br /> Now I know one of the ways scientist were able to confirm that the impact crater in Mexico was most likely the same that killed the dinosaurs, was by dating particles in a layer of dust from the atmosphere. And that what created the dust layer, and the impact crater dated the same time frame, and contained the same materials. So even if the crater was not found, they was still a pointer to the event.<br /><br /> So now we have this much, much more profound incident. Not a single impact by a sizable object on one planet. But hundreds of impacts spread across the solar system, that happen on a fairly scheduled basis. I just cant believe with such a thing happening there wouldn't be quite a few pointers to it. (If anyone know of such though, please tell me. I'd be very interested to read it and weigh the data for myself.)<br /><br /> I mean think of it. If this “Death Star” shakes so many comets loose from the Oort cloud every 22 million years, that a Earth collision is a certainty. Think of how many millions of long term comets it would have to be releasing into the inner solar system to do that. Also think of the millions that would have missed? Wouldn't we be seeing a comet “storm” period. Where a unusual bunching of Comets would be passing through the planets orbits?<br /><br /> Now my field is computer science. So I'm sure any of the Astronomers and Physicists out there could explain my points away if they are wrong very easily. Which since I'm not a specialist in the field I wouldn't be surprised if they all are. But

 

[iron_sun_254]

<font color="yellow">He says it must exist for the following reason. If the Oort cloud contains material with 10% to 40% percent the mass of Earth. And that the material for the cloud was ejected out that far by the gravity of the outer planets. Yet the gas giants are in nearly the same positions where they formed, not closer to the Sun. Then there must be some unseen force of gravity that must have held them back. </font><br /><br />Actually, there's no proof that the gas giants are in the same orbit as when they first formed. In fact, there's evidence that they have moved. Here's a paper which explains the whole thing. Print this out and let him read it.<br /><br />http://www.ap.stmarys.ca/~jhahn/pubs/migrateAJ.pdf

 

[tony873004]

Astronomy magazine has an article on this exact topic. It's in the current (July 2005) issue.<br /><br />It would be difficult to believe that with all the observatories worldwide owned and operated by different governments, groups, even amateurs, that they'd all get together and unanomously decide that they're the only ones who can handle such information. If proof beyond the cyclic period of extintions exist, scientist would be drooling at the prospect of writing a paper, publishing it in a journal, and becoming famous.

 

[nexium]

These crackpot theories (there are thousands of variations) mostly have too little good evidence to rate hypothesis status. Worse, the predictions (sometimes deliberate disinformation) of psysics, channelers, remote viewers and people who want to make money off the ignorent masses, typically have serious decrepencies with mainstream astronomy and physics. The conspiracies are more often with the new age than the mainstream, but the mainsteam is also guilty of conspiracy on many topics. Neil

 

[MBA_UIU]

I have heard this same theory for years. Back in 2000 they found a brown dwarf that was only 13 Au from earth, and then it took them another 3 years to find its companion dwarf that is only 11 Au from earth. From the information on the second page this companion dwarf is somewhere between 38 to 70 times the mass of Jupiter. To be honest I think it would be rather difficult for use to detect something of this size unless it was in a place where its effects could be seen. I would think that it would be a rather dark spec and, as it is not orbiting a star other then our own, it would be hard to detect using the same technology that we now use to see new planets. I can remember reading a report a few years back that said something like all the mass in the solar system cannot explain the wobble seen in the sun. This might add some “weight” to the debate of our sun having a brown dwarf. <br />http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/brown_dwarf_001122.html<br /><br />http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/brown_dwarfs_030919.html<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

11 and 13 AUs are closer than Uranus. Think the ancient Egyptians (et al) would have pointed them out for posterity. Tough setting up a conspiracy and enlisting folks thousands of years ago to go along with it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[yevaud]

<font color="yellow">I guess my real problem with the “Rain of Comets” theory is the lack of scarring I would expect it to leave across the solar system.</font><br /><br />But there *is* evidence of this across the Solar System. In point of fact, much of the cratering we see on the face of the moon is from during the "Terminal Bombardment" phase, over 4 GY ago.<br /><br />We don't see this on Earth because it's tectonically active, so the surface has been reworked countless times. But look at the cratering on the surface of Mars. It's far less geologically active relative to Earth, and it shows. You can see numerous craters of all ages.<br /><br />I'm not certain where the 22 million year cycle idea comes from. We know that the odds (based on time of course) of receiving a planet-killer similar to Chixlub is 1:100,000,000 - e.g., one impact, on average, every hundred-million years. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

I meant Ly and not Au...and if you knew what I meant then why not just point it out? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

I have no way of infering what you mean other than what you type. IMO, it was entirely plausible for <i>you</i> to have meant AU. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

Well let’s review a few things about your critique. “11 and 13 AUs are closer than Uranus” Yep it should have been Ly and not Au, this was a honest mistake. “Think the ancient Egyptians (et al) would have pointed them out for posterity” I said “Back in 2000” not 2000 years ago. OMG did you make a mistake??? Say it isn’t sooooooo!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

I'm surprised it didn't take 10 pages of postings to get you over to light years at this point. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

By the way, just by reading the third sentence, “From the information on the second page this companion dwarf is somewhere between 38 to 70 times the mass of Jupiter.” you could have inferred that I meant the links on the bottom of my post. These take you too the pages here at SDC and you would have seen that I had made a simple mistake in my abbreviations. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

And I knew that you would not admit to making a mistake <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

The rocket exhaust posts were my first impression of you. It will color my readings of your posts for some time.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[yevaud]

That's ok. I sometimes don't even read the entire thread, but just respond to individual posts, such as this time. I merely was providing some information on current thought about the issue.<br /><br />Debate away. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

You want to critque what I write and yet you cannot admit that you made a mistake in your post? Things that make you go hummm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Shoe on other foot now and you're unhappy. Now you know what it was like on the other side of the rocket exhaust posts.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

Oh please.... I said in relationship to the x axis of the rocket in my thrid post but no one wanted to read that part. Every post after my first post had links to peer reviewed sources and I tried to explain my meaning the best way I knew how. No one that responded, including yourself, commented on the sources I used. Why? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

No, I am not unhappy I just do not understand a couple of things. Why attack instead of trying to educate using references to show, demonstrate, or prove your point? And why does it seem that no one wants to review the work, in other words review the resources, that some one has put the time and effort into researching? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

BTW I did look at everything that BB and Va....89 (or whatever his name is) posted when responding to their crackpot ideas and theories. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>

 

[MBA_UIU]

I never said it did. Read the post and show me where I said it was those two have any effect on this system.<br /><br />My point was that it wasn't until the year 2000 that the first one, and then 2003 its twin, were discovered and these were only 11 and 13 light years away. It was only because of their effects on the local star that we even noticed them. Given this, it would be hard for us to see one that might have an effect on this system. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>