To much cell phone lead to cancer

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nec208

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The effect mobile phone radiation has on human health is the subject of recent interest and study, as a result of the enormous increase in mobile phone usage throughout the world (as of June 2009[update], there were more than 4.3 billion users worldwide[1]). Mobile phones use electromagnetic radiation in the microwave range, which some believe may be harmful to human health. A large body of research exists, both epidemiological and experimental, in non-human animals and in humans, that shows overall no evidence for harmful effects. Other digital wireless systems, such as data communication networks, produce similar radiation.

The World Health Organization, based upon the consensus view of the scientific and medical communities, has stated that cancer is unlikely to be caused by cellular phones or their base stations and that reviews have found no convincing evidence for other health effects.[2][3] The WHO expects to make recommendations about mobile phones in 2010.[4] Some national radiation advisory authorities[5] have recommended measures to minimize exposure to their citizens as a precautionary approach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_pho ... and_health

I know this is hot topic and keeps coming up in media and there is a debate among scientist.But what are they say is bad the type of wave 2 GHz or the intensity of wave?

Because if it is the type of wave it false .There are millions of waves in the electromagnetic spectrum of all tpes of waves passing through your.[/s
 
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nec208

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What is wrong with this message board? It will not allow me to add any more text to my post I have start new thread.

Anyways I see in 5 or 8 years wireless internet ,PDA,Ipad or tablet PC will be a hot debate among scientists like cell phones are now.
 
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neilsox

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The can't add text may be temporary, but I have not attempted by any other method than clicking the edit button. Dishonesty in high places abounds, so I will not be surprised if face, ear and brain cancer increase in future years due to heavy use of cell phones. A million watt rf source 10 meters away, affects your ear about the same as a one watt source one centimeter away (square law) so the stray radiation is typically weaker than than exposure from your cell phone. Newer cell phones typically transmit more than one watt. Portable phones are typically about 1/10th watt and are used fewer hours per day. Some long ago studies, which may have been honest, showed that certain UHF and microwave frequencies do more biological damage than other frequencies. That was definitely the conclusion of Raymond Reich who claimed to kill specific bacteria and virus with a specific frequency for each organism. Unfortunately government operatives destroyed most of his data and equipment, so his hypothesis can not be tested except at huge cost. Neil
 
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origin

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I don't think this is an issue, read this article from Scientific American.

Here is an excerpt:

This application of the precautionary principle is the wrong mistake to make. Cell phones cannot cause cancer, because they do not emit enough energy to break the molecular bonds inside cells. Some forms of electromagnetic radiation, such as x-rays, gamma rays and ultraviolet (UV) radiation, are energetic enough to break the bonds in key molecules such as DNA and thereby generate mutations that lead to cancer. Electromagnetic radiation in the form of infrared light, microwaves, television and radio signals, and AC power is too weak to break those bonds, so we don’t worry about radios, televisions, microwave ovens and power outlets causing cancer.
 
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theridane

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Origin is right.

The strongest microwave most people can get some real exposure to somewhere around 200 GHz - that's about 1.3e-22 J or 0.8 meV (from Planck's equation). The weakest chemical bond in our bodies has an energy of about 1 eV - so even the strongest microwave is three orders of magnitude weaker than the weakest bond in our chemistry.

Those backscatter X-rays the TSA's forcing us though on the other hand radiate energies of between 120 eV to 120 keV - more than enough to nuke your DNA.
 
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nec208

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What about microwave weapons I hear the military is using.

I hear your skin gets very hot and red.
 
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adrenalynn

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theridane":2xq5a6py said:
Origin is right.

The strongest microwave most people can get some real exposure to somewhere around 200 GHz
Frequency != Power. I'd rather be exposed to a 200Ghz radiator at a nanowatt than a 2Ghz radiator at 2000 watts...

Those backscatter X-rays the TSA's forcing us though on the other hand radiate energies of between 120 eV to 120 keV - more than enough to nuke your DNA.
Source? The TSA hasn't published power or exposure levels. That's the problem.
 
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theridane

Guest
Actually, when talking about molecular bonds, frequency == power. You see, a molecular bond can only interact with one photon at a time. If the photon in question has an energy lower than the bonding energy of the molecule, nothing will happen no matter how many photons you throw at it (up to a point when excessive heat will take over the damaging processes, but that's kilowatts away from what we're discussing here).

If, however, the energy is higher than the energy of the bond, the likelihood of the bond being disrupted becomes non-zero. An x-ray source has a non-zero chance of modifying your DNA (or any other molecule) no matter how powerful it is - the only difference will be in the number of molecules damaged per unit of time.

Energy of a bond is on the order of units of eV. Let's say 5 eV. The lower frequency that could possibly cause harm is therefore (from E = hf) f = E/h ~= 1208 THz, which is somewhere in the UV range.
 
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Mee_n_Mac

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nec208":tnrgti3s said:
What about microwave weapons I hear the military is using.

I hear your skin gets very hot and red.
Microwaves, weapon or not, won't cause cancer. They may bake you and cause damage that way though.
 
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adrenalynn

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theridane":2bkfq79e said:
The lower frequency that could possibly cause harm is therefore (from E = hf) f = E/h ~= 1208 THz, which is somewhere in the UV range.
"harm a human" - umm, you mean break the molecular bonds.

There are a lot of ways to "harm a human" with radio frequency that don't break molecular bonds. Don't believe me? Climb inside my microwave oven (only 2Ghz... @ 1850wts) and we'll have internally boiled human for dinner tonight.

Had a good friend die on the wrong end of a waveguide. 34Ghz @ 1200wts cooked his face and brain pretty completely. Cutout at the base, deadman at the top. Don't forget the deadman.
 
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Andorfiend

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adrenalynn":3nlrddjc said:
theridane":3nlrddjc said:
The lower frequency that could possibly cause harm is therefore (from E = hf) f = E/h ~= 1208 THz, which is somewhere in the UV range.
"harm a human" - umm, you mean break the molecular bonds.

There are a lot of ways to "harm a human" with radio frequency that don't break molecular bonds. Don't believe me? Climb inside my microwave oven (only 2Ghz... @ 1850wts) and we'll have internally boiled human for dinner tonight.

Had a good friend die on the wrong end of a waveguide. 34Ghz @ 1200wts cooked his face and brain pretty completely. Cutout at the base, deadman at the top. Don't forget the deadman.
True yes, there are plenty of ways to screw someone up with RF, but the lead in was cell phones causing cancer. Oddly enough the quoted article raising the question also pretty much explained that all the data is that they are harmless. And any knowledge of how EM waves interact with living tissue will tell you it's (at most) heat untill you get to the power levels Theridan was discussing. And the power output of a cell phone isn't enough to harm anything even if you keep it in your jockstrap. ... :shock:
 
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nec208

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Are you saying if the photon has lower energy than the bonding energy of the DNA nothing will happen but if the photon has higher energy than the bonding energy of the DNA it will cause cancer?

And different types of wavelength comes in different energy levels.What about transmitting power that does not increase the energy level only the number of photons?
 
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Jerromy

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nec208":3nh6pdxa said:
Are you saying if the photon has lower energy than the bonding energy of the DNA nothing will happen but if the photon has higher energy than the bonding energy of the DNA it will cause cancer?
Not to say it will cause cancer but it could cause cancer. DNA is the program that cells use to create parts of the cell, if the program gets messed up the cell could make messed up parts then split into messed up cells which lead to tumors.

And different types of wavelength comes in different energy levels.What about transmitting power that does not increase the energy level only the number of photons?
The wavelength of the EM radiation is how much energy EACH photon has... the transmitting power is how many photons are being transmitted at a certain wavelength. Enough photons concentrated in a small area will do damage no matter how low energy the wavelength, but it would cause cell death not cell damage.
 
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believer_since_1956

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People get scared of Cell Phones because they "hear" the cell phone operates at close to the same frequency as a microwave oven. They jump to the conclusion that it can damage your brain because a microwave oven can. They have little concept of the difference between 1kW and 0.25W and think any thing at that frequency will ultimately hurt you. As a side note I would like to see their faces the time I blew a hole in a circuit board with a Ku-Band Power Amplifier transistor. My thought was hmmm I guess surface waves on dielectrics do exist after all. (that comment is for you Lynn LOL)
 
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SJQ

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Never launched power transistors that way, but I can tell you that steel wool pads make very effective flashbulbs when you've got a 10 MWpep airways search radar to play with.... :)
 
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nec208

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The wavelength of the EM radiation is how much energy EACH photon has... the transmitting power is how many photons are being transmitted at a certain wavelength. Enough photons concentrated in a small area will do damage no matter how low energy the wavelength, but it would cause cell death not cell damage.[/quote

Explain the last part in bold better Also what wavelength can go through your skin or cause ionization ?
 
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Andorfiend

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The human body is essential invisible to anything longer than microwave radiation. Past that EM energy will still penetrate as anyone who has ever put a flashlight in their mouth has demonstrated, but the depth of penetration goes down as wavelength shortens. Ionization of molecules you care about starts in the UV B range. Below that any EM effect will be a short term heating effect unless you get something unlikely like one of your nerves happening to be the perfect antenna length for a particular RF burst, which I imagine would feel funky but probably not do any long term harm. Once you get below the MHz range you are sufficiently invisible that it takes a pretty massive amount of RF energy to actually effect you in any meaningful way. This does not mean it is safe to lick a low frequency source of high voltage, but it does mean you don't need to worry about broadcasting towers in your backyard.
 
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