U.S. Expansion

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Tjaxxo

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<p>Hi,</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>A few old-timers here will remember the original version of this discussion, which ran perhaps 10 years ago, and for a couple years.</p><p>I've managed to put my ideas into an article, which has now been published by the journal, "Intellectual Conservative."</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Enjoy! </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/09/09/the-supraterrestrial-nation/</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>He who isn't busy being born is busy dyin'.</p><p> </p> </div>
 
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trailrider

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi,&nbsp;A few old-timers here will remember the original version of this discussion, which ran perhaps 10 years ago, and for a couple years.I've managed to put my ideas into an article, which has now been published by the journal, "Intellectual Conservative."&nbsp;Enjoy! &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/09/09/the-supraterrestrial-nation/ <br />Posted by Tjaxxo</DIV></p><p>The problem with you is...you're probably right, and that doesn't sit very well with those of us who read Heinlein's "Rocket Ship Galileo", "Space Cadet", etc., and watched "Uncle Werhner" and "Uncle Villy Ley" on Disney, and read Collier's, and dreamed our own dreams of the Moon by 1960 and Mars by 1985, and wheel-satellites at 1075 miles up...and then went on to build real rockets and the Space Shuttle, etc...&nbsp;&nbsp; And now we see America's options for access to space closing down to a narrow aperture, unless a political miracle occurs in the next six months or so!&nbsp; And my grandchildren are either not interested in space or are too young to be shown the stars and their potential...yet!</p><p>In my opinion, we...humans, and especially we American humans have always done best when there was a frontier for us to conquer.&nbsp;&nbsp;To paraphrase what&nbsp;James Gunn wrote in one of the stories in "Station In Space," "The presence of a frontier is all that's necessary.&nbsp; Everyone doesn't have to go there... they just have to imagine&nbsp;they could go if given the opportunity."&nbsp; Too bad nobody is writing good sci-fi anymore...rather than sci-fantasy...</p><p>But I still think we humans need to go out, "thataway!"</p><p>Ad Luna! Ad Ares! Ad Astra!</p>
 
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kelvinzero

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<p>Silly nitpick: Mar's gravity is more like 0.4 of earths gravity. (The moon is about 1/6 I think). maybe you meant '0.6 less than earth's gravity'?</p><p>I&nbsp;would argue that&nbsp;lack of volunteers will&nbsp;never be an issue.&nbsp;This is a big planet. Even if only one person out of a thousand were willing to go, that is about six million candidates worldwide. I personally think the willing would be far closer to one in ten than one in a thousand, once the technology was perfected. (it would be perfected after the first few thousand were sent) After only a few thousand were sent there would probably be little economic motivation to send more. Far cheaper to just have babies at the other end. Probably more popular with the existing colonists too.</p><p>My own personal hobby horse: Im not too fussed over the moon vs mars. Im very confident that america could get a large base to either, should it find the motivation. What matters to me is permanence, which means biospheres that can support people indefinitely, and ISRU. We can and should be putting serious effort into this right now&nbsp; (in fact since apollo). It would also answer vital questions about living sustainably on earth. The greenies should be pouring money into this and into space if they really want to know what it is going to take to balance the environmental budget of the planet.</p>
 
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frodo1008

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The problem with you is...you're probably right, and that doesn't sit very well with those of us who read Heinlein's "Rocket Ship Galileo", "Space Cadet", etc., and watched "Uncle Werhner" and "Uncle Villy Ley" on Disney, and read Collier's, and dreamed our own dreams of the Moon by 1960 and Mars by 1985, and wheel-satellites at 1075 miles up...and then went on to build real rockets and the Space Shuttle, etc...&nbsp;&nbsp; And now we see America's options for access to space closing down to a narrow aperture, unless a political miracle occurs in the next six months or so!&nbsp; And my grandchildren are either not interested in space or are too young to be shown the stars and their potential...yet!In my opinion, we...humans, and especially we American humans have always done best when there was a frontier for us to conquer.&nbsp;&nbsp;To paraphrase what&nbsp;James Gunn wrote in one of the stories in "Station In Space," "The presence of a frontier is all that's necessary.&nbsp; Everyone doesn't have to go there... they just have to imagine&nbsp;they could go if given the opportunity."&nbsp; Too bad nobody is writing good sci-fi anymore...rather than sci-fantasy...But I still think we humans need to go out, "thataway!"Ad Luna! Ad Ares! Ad Astra! <br /> Posted by trailrider</DIV></p><p>WOW!!&nbsp; A totally kindred spirit to my own! &nbsp;</p><p>The only thing that I could add would be the totally wonderful space colony ideas of the great G. K. O'Niell.</p><p>If this great country dose not get off of its duff and truly fund an advanced program of humanity in space we are absolutely going to find ourselves by far surpassed by the only country in the world that seems to be taking the truly long view towards this sort of thing, and that is China!</p><p>What is even more sad to me is that it would take so very little for such an increase.&nbsp; If NASA's present budget is only about 0.5% of the federal budget, then an entirely adequate increaso of some 10% (for each year) in NASA's budget amounts to only an increase of 0.05% of the federal budget!&nbsp; Can every American that works afford and extra candy bar per year?</p><p>Oh well, rant off... </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
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Tjaxxo

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Silly nitpick: Mar's gravity is more like 0.4 of earths gravity. (The moon is about 1/6 I think). maybe you meant '0.6 less than earth's gravity'?Posted by kelvinzero</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Ouch! That's no little mistake on my part.</p><p>&nbsp;It's always the mostobvious things, things you don't go back and re-research, because you think you know.</p><p>I've sent in for the correction - thanks. </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>He who isn't busy being born is busy dyin'.</p><p> </p> </div>
 
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Tjaxxo

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<p>
WOW!!&nbsp; A totally kindred spirit to my own! &nbsp;The only thing that I could add would be the totally wonderful space colony ideas of the great G. K. O'Niell.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I decided to limit that mention to a single, imbedded html, and let the imagery speak for itself.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>"Indeed, the space settlements themselves would represent the supreme products of such an economy. Achieve one gravity, and then add scale.&nbsp; These are places to which I can imagine myself relocating, within which I can imagine myself raising a family."</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It's such an overwhelming vision, it didn't seem to need more words. </p><p>&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>He who isn't busy being born is busy dyin'.</p><p> </p> </div>
 
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trailrider

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<p>"As I posted earlier, Americans need a frontier, and we have run out of GEOgraphical frontiers here on Earth. (Yes, including Alaska, which though rugged to live and work in, isn't really the kind of frontier we've known, anymore.)&nbsp; </p><p>"Komerex nal khesterex!" from John Ford's "The Final Reflection".&nbsp; Translated from the Imperial Klingonese, "The structure (civilization, country, etc.) that doesn't grow, dies!"&nbsp; Maybe America can't afford to get to and build bases on the Moon, and then Mars, but we can't afford <em>not</em> to!&nbsp; Of course, I don't care if we use Wiley E. Coyote's Acme slingshot to get there...and if Disney can make a profit on an E-ticket ride up there, then the Government can go fish!</p><p>But governments have typically led the way before the commercial side takes over...which MUST happen eventually to sustain the push outbound!</p><p>Ad Luna! Ad Ares! Ad Astra!</p>
 
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