UFOs will remain mysterious without better data, NASA study team says

[Admin]

During the opening remarks in today's meeting of NASA's UAP study team, members stressed that the biggest roadblock standing between us and understanding unidentified phenomena is a lack of data.

UFOs will remain mysterious without better data, NASA study team says : Read more

 

[Turtle]

If our government keeps the data so very secret maybe NASA should try a few other governments. Make contact. Other governments might be more willing to share.

It is truly a shame that these fine people are receiving harassment for even studying the UAP subject. The article didn't mention the source of this harassment. In previous years such harassment seemed to be coming from the government it'self. I know that from people I have met that encounters with UFO's and such, pictures and all were confiscated and the two way co-operation between them as witnesses and the Air-force resulted in denial and stonewalling. This happened , as I recall, in Nebraska.

A few people refuse to report such things to any "authority". I would, and have. Too old to care now. Still, once one has met an alien up close and face to face it tends to remove all doubt from the "controversy"

One has to review and think of all the crap that Travis Walton went through after his experience, which in it'self was traumatizing, to conclude that reporting anything to any "authority" is a bad idea.

 

[billslugg]

Witness testimony, images, videos mean nothing. All are easily faked.The only thing that counts is a piece of an extraterrestrial being or craft. This piece could be analyzed and definitively prove or disprove the case.

 

[Turtle]

Bill, that is most likely the case. I can't argue about what may be called definitive proof. I do however know my own experience. That experience does not require any authority of any kind to validate it, especially from a government that lies to us as an operating parameter.

No matter what, I would never have cut her arm off to send in as "evidence".

PS. She was an extremely cute grey Zeta with beautiful very dark brown eyes.

 

[billslugg]

For any individual, an experience can be sufficient to justify their belief.

The first person to prove the existence of ET will become rich and famous, a Nobel Prize winner, asked to appear on TV shows, etc thus, unfortunately, there is a serious "conflict of interest" for anyone making the claim.

Proof can only be through isotopic analysis which requires but a milligram or so of the material in question. A fingernail clipping would do nicely, as would a strand of hair. Keep this in mind if you happen to see the ET again.

 

[COLGeek]

For any individual, an experience can be sufficient to justify their belief.

The first person to prove the existence of ET will become rich and famous, a Nobel Prize winner, asked to appear on TV shows, etc thus, unfortunately, there is a serious "conflict of interest" for anyone making the claim.

Proof can only be through isotopic analysis which requires but a milligram or so of the material in question. A fingernail clipping would do nicely, as would a strand of hair. Keep this in mind if you happen to see the ET again.

Agreed 100%. This is why such a "secret" could never be kept in this day and age.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

Never met an extraterrestrial I didn't like. Never met one I did like, either. I've never met any at all.

That said, if I did meet one, I am not so sure I would tell anybody. Without definitive proof, it would be a reputation killer. And, even with a fingernail or hair sample (assuming extraterrestrials have hair and fingernails, or even fingers, or heads), I am not so sure that turning that over to a government entity would result in them publicly acknowledging that they had confirmed it was of extraterrestrial origin.

So, the real issue seems to come down to who do you trust/believe?

Anyway, I am not one that believes we have extraterrestrial beings among us, or even watching us.

 

[billslugg]

The government would not have a role unless the finder wanted it that way. The sample would need to be divided so pieces could be sent to several laboratories. Many confirmations needed. You could pay for it yourself or maybe talk an academic into taking it on. In any event it would need to be published in a reputable scientific journal.

There is no ready way to fake an isotopic signature. You would need resources sufficient to build and operate a isotopic separation unit, such as a bank of a thousand or so centrifuges, each costing a milion dollars. It would also take many years as each isotope of each element would need to be separated out. All isotopic percentages would need to be tweaked. This would take tens to hundreds of years, tens to hundreds of billion dollars. I'm not saying it's not possible but its's not possible.

It is possible aliens exist and are here but I have seen no hard evidence.

 

[Turtle]

Please remember that I am not asking for any validation. Don't need it. As for NASA they might benefit from what I said but doubt they would ever read this. If they knew me they would believe me, but they don't know me and there are too many people that just plain lie. So they would be stuck in a philosophy of disbelief, with good reason, and I would be stuck in a philosophy of thinking and feeling that it is pointless to try.

Still, a nice warm body in front of me was very real. By the way Zetas don't have hair or finger and toe nails or teeth. They have a cartilage in place of teeth to chew with. So don't worry, they don't bite hard.

Bill, I can't think of a much greater nightmare than ending up on television. Even this forum gets a little too close. OH! THE FAME!

 

[Unclear Engineer]

OK Bill, how is the average Joe supposed to line-up several highly sophisticated labs to do those analyses for free? There would probably have to be some substantial publicity. I would expect the government to involve itself pretty quickly if the claim seemed potentially truthful, and maybe confiscate the sample. After all, the government has no way to know that an extraterrestrial that didn't come through customs and fill out the necessary forms has not created a health hazard by bringing "undeclared biological material" (i.e., itself) into our country? Heck, I once got a green coconut confiscated when I came back to the U.S. from the Bahamas. And, those could actually wash ashore here, naturally.

 

[billslugg]

The Average Joe is not going to get high priced laboratories to do it for free. None of them work for free. Academics, however, get free access to machines in their universities. That is why I made that suggestion.

Federal and state laws grant ownership of meteorites to the landowner. A UFO falling from the sky certainly qualifies as meteorite. So it depends where a potential encounter happens, I suppose, as to who owns it.

This is science, it must be painstakingly documented, as all science must be. You don't have to be a scientist to get published, you simply have to be well documented and in scientific format. Average Joe is not going to be able to do that, so "AJ" is probably out of luck. No TV appearances for AJ!!

 

[Unclear Engineer]

If there are extraterrestrials visiting us, or even just watching us, and we have not been able to prove that so far, I doubt that a piece of their equipment is just going to fall out of the sky for us to examine. At least I would expect them to retrieve any failed gear. Isn't that what we would expect ourselves to do if the roles were reversed?

And, biological samples? Think space suits, or at least hazmat suits. I don't expect any extraterrestrials to be running around on Earth naked, or even using an Earth outhouse. And, dead extraterrestrials would probably be retrieved with even higher priority than pieces of failed equipment.

So, I expect that this area of "extraterrestrials are here and we don't know it" is going to remain a clash point between science and imagination for a long time to come. The logic that they can do that without having been detected by "scientists" cuts both ways.

The real role of science is more likely to be in looking at natural "visitors" to our solar system when we can collect samples and analyze them. That might be a retrieval mission to something swinging by the Sun on a hyperbolic (non-orbital) path, some day. But, it also appears that Earth has been struck by meteorites that has incoming trajectory indicating a hyperbolic trajectory around the Sun, so recovery of those meteorites will be a good chance to do your isotopic tests, probably not so far off in time.

 

[billslugg]

If a UFO lands on Earth and has a close encounter with a person that is akin to "falling out of the sky". If claims of visitation are true, that is exactly what happens. IF people's claims about being abducted are true, then tiny bits of material evidence should be abundant, but they are not.

And yes, I agree the real role of science will be to evaluate natural visitors.

 

[trailrider]

Witness testimony, images, videos mean nothing. All are easily faked.The only thing that counts is a piece of an extraterrestrial being or craft. This piece could be analyzed and definitively prove or disprove the case.

Or maybe a delegation from Vulcan or the Klingon Empire? I personally have NEVER seen a UFO or UAP. I would like to know what caused the Minuteman I missile guidance systems in Echo- (all ten of them) and Oscar-flights to shut down when some strange lights appeared over Launch Facilities in March 1966 (or was it 1967?). I did have my Targeting & Alignment team out to one of the Echo LF's the night after all ten birds went down. A fellow officer was out at Oscar-1 about a week later when the same thing happened, although

 

[trailrider]

not all the Oscar-flight birds went down. He was ordered not to discuss any of this, and shortly thereafter was transferred to a training base as an instructor.
Have never heard any explanation of these two events.

 

[billslugg]

"Or maybe a delegation from Vulcan or the Klingon Empire?" - trailrider

Indistinguishable from any current hard rock band.

 

[Dave]

Star Trek is a wonderful show. It is also not real. The aliens created on the show are also not real. The majority of people do believe there are intelligent lifeforms beyond earth. This is real. It also makes sense. We are not alone. Not everyone shares that opinion.
Some believe we are the center of the universe. The idea has been around for a long time. They are free to their opinions. They believe we are alone in the universe. No one could possibly be more advanced than we are. It is simply not possible. We should try not to stigmatize them.
NASA is now taking some heat off the military. They will also investigate. They will do the science. There is an easier way to investigate the UFO or UAP phenomena. The military opens up all their files to what has been reported and seen to the public. They work with other military entities around the world. They work with mainstream scientists to better understand the situation. Now this would be a true effort in solving this problem.

 

[trailrider]

In referring to Star Trek beings, I was, of course, being facetious. However, I agree with Dave that it might help if the military and intel files on the subject were declassified and made public. At least military and commercial pilot reports are being made more public, and those people are no longer afraid of being considered candidates for grounding or a trip to the funny farm for reporting such phenomena. One "rationale" for hiding such reports has been that if true extraterrestrial existence were verified, that it would cause mass hysteria. I believe that is no longer likely. Perhaps, the reason "they" haven't revealed themselves, or have sworn world leaders to secrecy is because "they" have their own equivalent to Star Trek's "Prime Directive" to leave us alone until "they" deem us civilized enough to warrant such contact.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

The problem with revealing all info about UAP events is that it would reveal exactly what our military can and cannot detect. That is info we really should not be giving our opponents.

"The public" really isn't in any position to make useful evaluations of that info, anyway. Expanding the group of actual experts in pertinent things to include military and civilian personnel seems like the right thing to do, and is now being done in a collaborative manner. I think that is the best we can ask for.

As for personally experiencing UAPs, I think I have posted on here before about my own experience with what looked like a silvery solid object low over the trees, silently crossing the road in front of me as I was walking, suddenly seeming to transform into a banking commercial jetliner glinting in the sunlight at an altitude of thousands of feet and much greater distance.

My "take" on that is the actual object was a real airplane, but the cause of it appearing to me to be a much a closer, solid, elliptically shaped, featureless object was an unexplained aerial phenomenon.

However, I expect that there are some sci-fi devotees who will insist that what I saw was really an extraterrestrial ship with a momentarily malfunctioning cloaking device, and they mercifully recovered the situation by projecting a hologram of a familiar object to mislead me, instead of abducting me and erasing my memory.

All I can say is that I think my explanation is much more likely that such a fanciful one. So, I would like to see some research on how such an illusion can occur naturally. It apparently was not unheard of before, as I had already read about similar "silent, silvery, featureless craft" being seen by others, before I had my own "encounter".

 

[Turtle]

The human mind is easily outraged. It is normally a terrible observer. It insists that its world exists within its own understandable boundary s. Not all events that impinge upon the physical world are physical nor have physical substance. They are events none the less.

Not saying what you in particular saw. Consider the quantum situation of two juxt opposed events. Their possibility has moved into a state of probability and which of the two events has outcome lies within the state of the observer. For a macro event, a large number of quantum events would have to be exacted at the same time. For a macro event, however, the outcome of the individual quantum events would have to all co-inside.

Since there is an observers mind involved though, the forming macro event would have to "hang" in time until the observers mind ( not just or only brain functions) has not chosen, but moved the events into the world. It is a function of the mind to create, it has these possibilities. Sadly most minds do not .

They need a connection to Creation herself and the awareness to do that normally starts with a denial of such a possibility. It's like swimming across the pacific ocean to Hawaii and not believing in its existence nor ones ability to swim at all. That is a sad state of affairs.

It all has to work together. Consciousness is involved. If it wasn't there wouldn't be much of a mind to do the observing would there be?

At the point where you (for instance) had observed the silvery object the resultant event could have gone one of several ways. With a tentative connection to Creation herself an outraged mind chose one.

Schroeder the cat died another terrible death.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

Postulating that UAPs like the one I described are quantum manifestations is about the most unproductive line of inquiry that anybody has come up with, so far. Good evidence why the inquiry needs to be accomplished by people who have real expertise in the various scientific fields that are needed to evaluate the parameters likely to be responsible for the unexplained observations. Assuming that quantum fluctuations can produce anything observed is just diving into a logical rabbit hole that leads nowhere, and is thus useless.

 

[Dave]

Since 1945, few things have been more important to the military than collecting information concerning UFO's or UAP's. Since1945, nothing has been more important to the military than spreading misinformation or providing no information, either about sightings or encounters concerning UFO's or UAP's. Keep in mind most people keep these incidences to themselves, those that do report are brave citizens. In a free society we have a right to this information.